ricgem2002 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 If you read what I quoted from sgtkate (my bold). you lost me now can you just answer my post to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtkate Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I don't want to join the union. My job is heavily unionised, but I judge that they do more harm than good and I don't want to support them. I resent that they insist on negotiating my pay and conditions and remove my option to do it myself, but I tolerate it because the employer prefers to standardise the pay scheme and the conditions. And if I don't like it I can quit. Would you support forcing me to join the union under penalty of dismissal or legal action? As things stand, with unions being more about themselves than about the staff, then no I wouldn't force anyone to join them. However, if the unions start being a force for good for both the company and it's staff then yes I do. Unions only succeed when they have high membership. Ironically I've just applied to become a union rep, something I never thought I'd have done in the past, the reason is because my union actually works with my company to find solutions. My company listen to the union, even get their advice on employee relations and how we are all feeling about things so they can change policies or better communicate with staff. It's a real two-way deal and works very well. I work for a big company as well, not a small one who you might think would have this culture. My union holds my employer to account and equally the company holds the union to account too. How it should be. My company actually strongly encourage people to join the union and support anyone who wishes to go for a union position. It is looked upon favourably as caring about your workplace and colleagues. Such a shame so many companies and unions fail to grasp this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 you lost me now can you just answer my post to you Sure. we been here before:roll: are they forcing you to join a union ? how many of your work colleagues are in the union? it seems to me that your employer and the unions are getting along fine and things are working out between them. you it seems is the one stirring the pot, you knew the conditions before you took this employment (im assuming you did) Not now. But it's not unheard of even in democracies. It happens in the US routinely. And it seems to be what sgtkate is suggesting. So what's your problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Such a shame so many companies and unions fail to grasp this. and in unbelievers case some employees:suspect: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 As things stand, with unions being more about themselves than about the staff, then no I wouldn't force anyone to join them. However, if the unions start being a force for good for both the company and it's staff then yes I do. Unions only succeed when they have high membership. Ironically I've just applied to become a union rep, something I never thought I'd have done in the past, the reason is because my union actually works with my company to find solutions. My company listen to the union, even get their advice on employee relations and how we are all feeling about things so they can change policies or better communicate with staff. It's a real two-way deal and works very well. I work for a big company as well, not a small one who you might think would have this culture. My union holds my employer to account and equally the company holds the union to account too. How it should be. My company actually strongly encourage people to join the union and support anyone who wishes to go for a union position. It is looked upon favourably as caring about your workplace and colleagues. Such a shame so many companies and unions fail to grasp this. I must say that I object very strongly to this suggestion. Even joining a good union should be optional. If my job required me to join a union, force for good or not, I would quit. I might want to join the union and I might not. Try and force me and I'll refuse on general principle. It's the suspicion that this is what union folk think is right and are ultimately aiming for which plays a big part in the support I and others give to proposals to curtail unions further. I don't trust them. Your comments make me trust them less. ---------- Post added 18-01-2016 at 17:36 ---------- and in unbelievers case some employees:suspect: Surely it's up to me to decide whether or not I want to involve myself with fee-charging collective representation. If it's not optional, it becomes a tax. At that point unions become part of the state and the whole thing stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I must say that I object very strongly to this suggestion. Even joining a good union should be optional. If my job required me to join a union, force for good or not, I would quit. I might want to join the union and I might not. Try and force me and I'll refuse on general principle. It's the suspicion that this is what union folk think is right and are ultimately aiming for which plays a big part in the support I and others give to proposals to curtail unions further. I don't trust them. Your comments make me trust them less. ---------- Post added 18-01-2016 at 17:36 ---------- Surely it's up to me to decide whether or not I want to involve myself with fee-charging collective representation. If it's not optional, it becomes a tax. At that point unions become part of the state and the whole thing stinks. have you read here https://www.gov.uk/join-trade-union/joining-a-trade-union Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penistone999 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 What's this 'if this happens' business? It is happening. Even the Tories have realised it's the right thing to do and you can hardly accuse them of being anti-business!. I hope you are ready for prices of everything to go up , because you cannot expect business`s to absord the cost of being forced to payer higher wages. The cost will, rightly so , be passed on to the consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) have you read here https://www.gov.uk/join-trade-union/joining-a-trade-union Okay. How is that relevant? Are you trying to tell me what the legal status of unions is now? If so, you're missing the point. I'm debating with sgtkate whether it should become compulsory to join a union. If you want to debate how things are now, you've come to the wrong conversation. It comes down to this. If you'e not going to defend my right to not join the union. And you're clearly not. Why on earth would I defend your right to have a union? Edited January 18, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I hope you are ready for prices of everything to go up , because you cannot expect business`s to absord the cost of being forced to payer higher wages. The cost will, rightly so , be passed on to the consumer. We could do with a little inflation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricgem2002 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I hope you are ready for prices of everything to go up , because you cannot expect business`s to absord the cost of being forced to payer higher wages. The cost will, rightly so , be passed on to the consumer. they could if they didn't want as much profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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