Forgemasters so it begins?

[bessmeg]

Been in the engineering industry for over 36 years, sheffield should be proud and do all it can to protect its great engineering heritage and future, At the moment the engineering industry is in the worst state I've seen for years, This is mainly due to China economy, and the low price of oil, this has hit many sheffield company's hard it may surprise many that there has been huge job losses, and a large number of companies closed not just in sheffield but country wise, This sadly goes largely unreported, I feel Britain must maintain its manufacturing industry along with the skills that go with it, we can't all work for service industries, The large industries support so many other business, so many of our famous companies have been brought by the Americans , or others, when things get tough they sadly pull the plug, The likes of forgemasters and Davy markham are a shadow of there former selves, but still have a massive reputation abroad, and are still attracting orders worldwide, This is because of skills and engineering excellence, also dam hard work by these companies from top to bottom in trying to get the job done as cheap as possible, As a industry I don't believe any other is trying as had to survive, It goes though me the attitude of some that it doesn't seem to matter if we lose these companies,once these jobs go what replaces them another medowhall I don't think so? So yes if some of these companies require some sort of support to help them through the tough Times give it them, it helps retain a huge number of jobs throughout the community, when the tide turns and the good times return , everyone will benefit once again,.

Edited January 20, 2016 by bessmeg
Spelling

[apelike]

We are, it seems, unable to subsidise our industry, even though it means that Plant and skills will be lost forever. We can however subsidize the wealthy landowners:

"The minister responsible for cutting income support for the poor, Iain Duncan Smith, lives on an estate owned by his wife's family. During the last 10 years it has received €1.5m in income support from taxpayers".

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/farm-subsidies-blatant-transfer-of-cash-to-rich

 

 

Thats the Guardian playing on words again as they are not receiving income support from taxpayer but farm subsidies. I notice the dont mention or moan about the two biggest recipients of farm subsidies, the Queen and Prince Charles.

[RJRB]

Well said Bessmeg.

It is not at there is no demand or that there will not be demand in the future.

If we let our basic industries go there can be no recovery.Years of skills and expertise will be gone forever and we will be the poorer for it.

Unfortunately the past record of successive governments does not fill me with hope because they are only concerned with short term thinking for the length of their term in office.

[atticus]

That may be so. If they didn't give farmers subsidies the landscape would look a lot different. Where we live the land is no longer farmed. We keep horses on a bit of it and some was sold for housing. But up in the Dales farming and land management would cease. Much of York would be abandoned to constant flooding.

Other areas would become an unmanaged wilderness and access to the countryside restricted.

 

I see no point in mining coal we can't burn, and I wouldn't subsidise steel where the car parks of the workers are littered with Volkswagens, Renaults and Fiats built with foreign steel.

 

 

Sorry foxy but i don't buy that argument at all,You're having your cake and eating it.

I feel it is in the national interest to help certain industries out ;farming being one of them.Many other countries do it.

[the_bloke]

I thought everyone around these parts was well aware of the above by now.

 

I was; I argued against the 80 million quid loan in the thread we had when it was announced the loan was not to be.

 

My point was Forgemasters then turned down a £36m loan a few years later as they no longer needed the money - a point that most people either gloss over or didn't even realise was a thing. Interesting how they lurch from 'we need the money' to 'we don't need the money' to 'we are losing money' in the space of six years.

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2016 at 18:36 ----------

 

Do you believe the farmers should be subsidised to produce food ?

Do you believe any other industries should receive state subsidies ?

 

No to both.

 

Farmers are subsidised by the EU; all farmers are subsidised across the EU, not just British farmers.

 

The steel industry in the UK is not owned by the state. By EU law, it cannot be subsidised if it's a selective subsidy or creates an unfair advantage against competitors in other EU countries.

 

To subsidise our steel industry, the entire steel industry across the EU would have to be subsidised, like farmers are - something most people don't seem to understand.

[foxy lady]

Sorry foxy but i don't buy that argument at all,You're having your cake and eating it.

I feel it is in the national interest to help certain industries out ;farming being one of them.Many other countries do it.

 

I'm not asking you to buy it. We get subsidies and grants to use our land in a way that the government and the EU think is beneficial to everyone. My life won't alter if we don't grow the trees they want, or provide the habitats they want. It is no skin off my nose if when it rains hard it floods in Sheffield or somewhere else.

We are just custodians of a piece of the land. We don't make a living from it.

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2016 at 20:39 ----------

 

 

No to both.

 

Farmers are subsidised by the EU; all farmers are subsidised across the EU, not just British farmers.

 

The steel industry in the UK is not owned by the state. By EU law, it cannot be subsidised if it's a selective subsidy or creates an unfair advantage against competitors in other EU countries.

 

To subsidise our steel industry, the entire steel industry across the EU would have to be subsidised, like farmers are - something most people don't seem to understand.

 

I've just bought a British built car made using British steel. I wonder how many of those calling for subsidies to our steel industry are amongst the 80% who bought from overseas.

[Guest]

Been in the engineering industry for over 36 years, sheffield should be proud and do all it can to protect its great engineering heritage and future, At the moment the engineering industry is in the worst state I've seen for years, This is mainly due to China economy, and the low price of oil, this has hit many sheffield company's hard it may surprise many that there has been huge job losses, and a large number of companies closed not just in sheffield but country wise, This sadly goes largely unreported, I feel Britain must maintain its manufacturing industry along with the skills that go with it, we can't all work for service industries, The large industries support so many other business, so many of our famous companies have been brought by the Americans , or others, when things get tough they sadly pull the plug, The likes of forgemasters and Davy markham are a shadow of there former selves, but still have a massive reputation abroad, and are still attracting orders worldwide, This is because of skills and engineering excellence, also dam hard work by these companies from top to bottom in trying to get the job done as cheap as possible, As a industry I don't believe any other is trying as had to survive, It goes though me the attitude of some that it doesn't seem to matter if we lose these companies,once these jobs go what replaces them another medowhall I don't think so? So yes if some of these companies require some sort of support to help them through the tough Times give it them, it helps retain a huge number of jobs throughout the community, when the tide turns and the good times return , everyone will benefit once again,.

 

Western industry has suffered due to the "new world order" agenda of the past 50 or so years.

 

Forget the silly David Icke and Alex Jones idea about what the NWO is about, it is the goal of balancing more equally the wealth and power in the world rather than it all being in the west. Part of the way to achieve this is the deliberate running down of western industry and transplanting it in the developing countries to help accelerate their development. It might not feel like it or look like it but its actually on the whole a good thing.

[psynuk]

In a way your right Alan, but it's more david icke than philanthropic iyswim.

The rout of manufacturing in the 70's/80's and the push towards more tertiary industries was just a sensible bit of obvious forward thinking for the time.

It was clear then as it is now that you can't compete with second world countries when it comes to simple jobs like mining, making cars and straightforward manufacturing on a cost basis.

But it wasn't for any particular person/region/industry benefit, it was the long term survival of income stream for rich & wealthy folks that was important.

Nothing enlightening there, I know.

Look at the exported business' over the last 40 odd years, it's not limited to any type or field, it's -usually- nothing more than finding the cheapest source of labour that's willing and educated enough to do the roughly same job once performed here. for less.

 

The problem really lies in population; it's growth, it's location, the expectations it has and the improbability of people and business to shoulder the responsibility (that responsibility is ignored) that taking away industry has in the short term, ie 40 years or so, has on the local-ish population.

Not many in Sheffield expect their kids to be able to get a job in the steel industry, like wise for, miners, fishermen, shipbuilders ect ect the population takes time to adjust.

 

The 'new world order' follows and lusts after potential profitability, the population follows that now in a bizzare way. controlled or otherwise....

It's unfortunately ethics that are often non-existent in a business decision and an inhuman belief that chasing corporate profit excuses consideration of such matters.

 

I'm not sure if Forgemasters is unique enough to be immune from falling to 'offshoreableness' or indeed if anything is...

[Jim Hardie]

See my post #48

 

.....and my post #40

[sgtkate]

no thanks close all the factories down, whats the point subsidising companies that create steel that no one wants to buy, on the news last night china were making a loss of £24 a tonne, and thats for cheap steel so who is going to buy expensive steel. unfortunately many jobs will have to go but their is plenty of other work to go around and it would cut down pollution, i say close them all across the world and don't open them again until the steel is needed

 

Do you not wonder why China is making a loss at the moment? It's so they can wipe out the competition and then once they have an effective monopoly they can raise the prices through the roof. Much like the Saudis are doing with the oil. For once it would be nice to see our government(s) play the long game and start state subsidies on core materials to allow them to compete directly against China who are doing exactly that.