Better off on benefits than working

[herbalharry]

I know, my wife has her own business and she also has her own job to make sure everything ticks over. She sometimes ends up going stupid amounts of hours a week, but getting your own business off the ground often involves making big sacrifices.

 

I dont know individually what your circumstances are but you have potentially 2 incomes (or one income and the other can go do there thing) and split bills in two. Just splitting mealtimes and travel costs in two could save lots.

 

for single people without kids its a lot harder financially. I can't think of many (or any) benefits to being single financially speaking.

 

For instance council tax - it should be individually rather than per household to make it fair but its not. Even with single person discount im still paying 25% more than you and wife does in same tax band.

Same water rates. It goes on area.

I pay more on rent and mortgage, and if we are renting from council, same district heating. Id pay the same as a 4 person family!

 

So with respect, im making a lot more sacrifices, im right on the edge and have to be more self sufficient than any couple.

 

On the plus side I'm free to do what I want and dont have to deal with much drama - there is a bonus!

[sgtkate]

I get your point jfk, but money matters,it cannot do your self esteem much good when you work for less than you would get for not working.There's plenty of minimum wage jobs,zero hours contracts,I glad that I am not in that situation. If you can't make it pay HH,find something you can do that will.

 

Can someone do that calculation to give a scenario that makes you better off being out of work purely on money? I've just ran a universal credit calculate keeping everything the same as it is now but just stating neither me nor my partner work. Comes out at £1115 a month.

 

Adding in a minimum wage full time job would give us an extra £261 a month on top of that.

 

I cannot see any possible way that you'd lose out by working, compared to not working at all. I am aware of multiple 'systems' where working 15 hours a week is better than 16, but that isn't what we are talking about here.

 

---------- Post added 21-01-2016 at 15:18 ----------

 

I dont know individually what your circumstances are but you have potentially 2 incomes (or one income and the other can go do there thing) and split bills in two. Just splitting mealtimes and travel costs in two could save lots.

 

for single people without kids its a lot harder financially. I can't think of many (or any) benefits to being single financially speaking.

 

For instance council tax - it should be individually rather than per household to make it fair but its not. Even with single person discount im still paying 25% more than you and wife does in same tax band.

Same water rates. It goes on area.

I pay more on rent and mortgage, and if we are renting from council, same district heating. Id pay the same as a 4 person family!

 

So with respect, im making a lot more sacrifices, im right on the edge and have to be more self sufficient than any couple.

 

On the plus side I'm free to do what I want and dont have to deal with much drama - there is a bonus!

 

What do you need to make your business give you an income? Is it just some cover while you get up and running? Do you need more support with the business aspects too? I saw your thread about the council and as I've said I sympathise totally, sounds like a right mess. Is there a solution for you, or do you just need to keep plowing through and things will get better?

 

A couple of small things for you, switch to a water meter, especially if you have more bedrooms than people, will nearly always work out massively in your favour. Might only be £25 or so a month, but that could make a huge difference at the end of the day. Can you discuss a mortgage holiday with your provider (you said both rent and mortgage so I'm not sure if you have a mortgage or not...). Pushes things down the road a bit by which time you might be more financially sorted.

Edited January 21, 2016 by sgtkate

[JFKvsNixon]

I dont know individually what your circumstances are but you have potentially 2 incomes (or one income and the other can go do there thing) and split bills in two. Just splitting mealtimes and travel costs in two could save lots.

 

for single people without kids its a lot harder financially. I can't think of many (or any) benefits to being single financially speaking.

 

For instance council tax - it should be individually rather than per household to make it fair but its not. Even with single person discount im still paying 25% more than you and wife does in same tax band.

Same water rates. It goes on area.

I pay more on rent and mortgage, and if we are renting from council, same district heating. Id pay the same as a 4 person family!

 

So with respect, im making a lot more sacrifices, im right on the edge and have to be more self sufficient than any couple.

 

On the plus side I'm free to do what I want and dont have to deal with much drama - there is a bonus!

 

I wasn't judging you, I was talking about my circumstances. The sacrifices I was talking about are where my wife has often got to work 60+ hours a week for her business and her job.

 

This also means she has to spend an awful lot of time away from her daughter and me. This has meant that I've also had to sacrifice my career to bring up my daughter, with the added costs of child care for the days that I do work.

[herbalharry]

 

What do you need to make your business give you an income? Is it just some cover while you get up and running? Do you need more support with the business aspects too? I saw your thread about the council and as I've said I sympathise totally, sounds like a right mess. Is there a solution for you, or do you just need to keep plowing through and things will get better?

 

A couple of small things for you, switch to a water meter, especially if you have more bedrooms than people, will nearly always work out massively in your favour. Might only be £25 or so a month, but that could make a huge difference at the end of the day. Can you discuss a mortgage holiday with your provider (you said both rent and mortgage so I'm not sure if you have a mortgage or not...). Pushes things down the road a bit by which time you might be more financially sorted.

 

Ive update the council thread. They are sympathetic to be fair, just very difficult to navigate the system.

 

there a lot of potential issues with cashflow. A client doesnt pay for instance and you had that money earmarked for marketing....lot of stuff like that. I do have a figure in mind and the council thing is not a long term fix but it helps in the short term.

 

---------- Post added 21-01-2016 at 15:38 ----------

 

I wasn't judging you, I was talking about my circumstances. The sacrifices I was talking about are where my wife has often got to work 60+ hours a week for her business and her job.

 

This also means she has to spend an awful lot of time away from her daughter and me. This has meant that I've also had to sacrifice my career to bring up my daughter, with the added costs of child care for the days that I do work.

 

Fair play I wasnt judging you either. I suppose it always seems rosier from the other side.

 

I sometimes wish I had a wife and daughter to come home too to take my mind off work problems and cheer me up. Like you say that comes with its own responsibilities.

 

---------- Post added 21-01-2016 at 15:39 ----------

 

By April all this will be a distant memory. Just got to see the bigger picture.

[ANGELFIRE1]

after a particularly hard weeks graft, struggling with sickness but still turning up to work, I got home on Friday and opened my pay slip to contemplate whether I would be better off dead than trying to live on the pittance I had earned whilst my boss was on holiday abroad.

After a cup of tea and deciding beans on toast would not be a suitable final meal, I turned over my pay slip and wrote down what I would get in benefits. It worked out at £30 per week more.

this signifies why the government has introduced benefit reforms to get people into slavery or force the vulnerable to die in a way that keeps the government's hands clean.

many self employed people are just generators of revenue for the government to spend on foreign lost causes that will never benefit ordinary UK citizens. much of the red tape comes from the EU regulations that the UK government forces its citizens to abide by.

 

 

Just done the maths (not my strong point) minimum wage is £7.20 per hour x 40 hours work = £288. So if you can get £30 more on benefits it rises to £318 per week.

 

Please tell me your secret for getting £318 benefit a week, as I get no where even close to such an amount. By personal message if you wish to keep it from the public view, I am keen to find out what I am missing out on.

 

Angel1.

[herbalharry]

Just done the maths (not my strong point) minimum wage is £7.20 per hour x 40 hours work = £288. So if you can get £30 more on benefits it rises to £318 per week.

 

Please tell me your secret for getting £318 benefit a week, as I get no where even close to such an amount. By personal message if you wish to keep it from the public view, I am keen to find out what I am missing out on.

 

Angel1.

 

what about your subsidies? (not going to list but obvious) a low wage person still has to pay as much as a high wage person.

 

the limit is 20k or 23k in london so in theory you could get up to this amount in benefits.

[Anna B]

Just done the maths (not my strong point) minimum wage is £7.20 per hour x 40 hours work = £288. So if you can get £30 more on benefits it rises to £318 per week.

 

Please tell me your secret for getting £318 benefit a week, as I get no where even close to such an amount. By personal message if you wish to keep it from the public view, I am keen to find out what I am missing out on.

 

Angel1.

 

Mmmm, I'd like to see a breakdown of the figures too.

 

Of course, by far the easiest thing to do is to get one of the many many thousands of jobs that Cameron's always boasting about.... Problem solved!

[spilldig]

Not really. When you add in bankruptcy costs, or failure to pay creditors costs, or court costs if required depending on how the company fails, or the future council house costs you now need if you declare bankruptcy and have to sell your house...it's not that simple to just spin up a business and think you can 'give it a go for a bit' and then bail out with no consequences if it doesn't work out.

 

I did say, that the comments might not apply to you about business mismanagement, but so many businesses do fall into this category. And fail. And cost both themselves and others a great deal of money when they do. That is why it's harder to get support as opposed to getting JSA.

 

Not quite with the bit about having to sell your house if you go bankrupt. William Roache declared himself bankrupt but still has the house. I don't know the circumstances but if I remember, the house was his.

[vwkittie]

What kind of system do we have when you work out you are better signing on than trying to build a small business...I dont understand this country.

 

---------- Post added 21-01-2016 at 11:04 ----------

 

They get everything paid for!

 

You must have had a very different experience of JSA than we did then, we certainly didn't 'get everything paid for' and the whole thing was a nightmare in terms of inconvenience and hoop jumping for a pittance of money. Thankfully it was only temporary!

[herbalharry]

I think Kate is referring to limited companies and limited liability.

 

The fact is when borrowing money especially larger amounts its likely some form of security is required such as your house, assets or cash or both.

 

I think bankruptcy is rare in UK. It's a last resort.

 

Although in USA they have a different view of bankruptcy or different types. Fifty cent and Donald Trump both declared themselves bankrupt to get out of debts.

 

---------- Post added 21-01-2016 at 17:13 ----------

 

You must have had a very different experience of JSA than we did then, we certainly didn't 'get everything paid for' and the whole thing was a nightmare in terms of inconvenience and hoop jumping for a pittance of money. Thankfully it was only temporary!

 

You didnt get rent, council tax, NHS and a weekly payment to live off? you can even get energy bills subsidised if you ask.

 

Im not saying its a massive amount. Im just saying as a self employed person you get none of this or very little depending on circumstances.