Do away with cycle lanes and speed bumps

[JFKvsNixon]

Cars don't need to slow down at junctions

 

Not significantly if they're driving along a main road and there's quite few side roads turning off it.

[Cyclone]

I'm not sure how I "want to have my cake and eat it"? Perhaps you can explain what is the cake in this case? Is the cake separate cycle lanes, without cars and without pedestrians? Do cyclists in Leeds now have their cake and have also eaten it?

 

I'm perfectly happy to share the road with cars when the drivers are competent. I'm not particularly advocating a new series of separate cycle only lanes. I AM saying that shared space is useless in a lot of cases, as already explained, it reduces your average speed to something <10mph, compared to an on road speed of maybe twice that.

[Eater Sundae]

I'm not sure how I "want to have my cake and eat it"? Perhaps you can explain what is the cake in this case? Is the cake separate cycle lanes, without cars and without pedestrians? Do cyclists in Leeds now have their cake and have also eaten it?

 

I'm perfectly happy to share the road with cars when the drivers are competent. I'm not particularly advocating a new series of separate cycle only lanes. I AM saying that shared space is useless in a lot of cases, as already explained, it reduces your average speed to something <10mph, compared to an on road speed of maybe twice that.

 

I think there are a lot of places where shared use (cyclists and pedestrians) are pretty useless for the experienced and fit cyclists, for the reasons you give, especially on busy urban roads where the differential speed between cycles and cars is low.

 

However, some slower and less experienced (or just nervous) cyclists may still prefer to share with pedestrians.

 

The big area where I would advocate cycle/pedestrian shared use is on faster roads with fewer junctions (and with higher differential speed between cycles and motor vehicles), typically out of town and on the edge of towns but also on some ring roads and equivalent, and where pedestrians are few and far between. Cyclists can travel at a comfortable speed for themselves, and only occasionally come across junctions or pedestrians where they need to give way.

[hyper]

Pedestrians can do it, why not cyclists? Just slow down and judge if its dafe to cross. You don't have to cycle at full pelt everywhere.

what do you mean "full pelt" Travelling at 15-20mph is not full pelt to me. its reasonable progress. how would you feel driving to work at say 5-10mph and having to stop every couple of hundred of metres?

You want to have your cake and eat it, which is all too apparent from certain members of the militant cycling community

what cake? what eat? What are you even on about? Personally I want no cycle lanes or facilities, I belong on the road and am happy there. I can match the speed of other traffic on junctions and roundabouts

I'm not so arrogant as to think I can speak for an entire community, when infact you are only giving a personal opinion.

He's not arrogant, he's just reitterating views of other cyclists on this thread. These are proper cyclists, not armchair cyclists. You really aint got a clue have you?

[Berberis]

what do you mean "full pelt" Travelling at 15-20mph is not full pelt to me. its reasonable progress. how would you feel driving to work at say 5-10mph and having to stop every couple of hundred of metres?

 

18mph is the legal limit for cycling on the footpath, so complaining that 20mph is not full pelt is rather irrelevant and your comparison is scuppered at the first hurdle.

 

I regularly have to travel well below the speed limit due to traffic, so I have all the experience needed.

 

cake? what eat? What are you even on about? Personally I want no cycle lanes or facilities, I belong on the road and am happy there. I can match the speed of other traffic on junctions and roundabouts

 

To eat your cake and have it is a common idiom.

 

If you think you can match the pace of any car at a junction, you are very wrong. The average velocity from a stop position of a car is approx 3-4m/s(2). The average velocity of an adult cyclist from a stop psition is less than is 1.8 ms-2.

 

He's not arrogant, he's just reitterating views of other cyclists on this thread. These are proper cyclists, not armchair cyclists. You really aint got a clue have you?

 

Arrogance is the exaggerated sense of importance or abilities. The Op was speaking for all cyclists, so this does fall into this category.

 

---------- Post added 29-01-2016 at 12:58 ----------

 

It's crazy that as soon as you ask cyclists do do something different, which is safer for all, they are up in arms. Other roads users have had to adjust their use of the highway to accommodate cyclists. It seems reciprocate is not in their vocabulary.

[hyper]

18mph is the legal limit for cycling on the footpath, so complaining that 20mph is not full pelt is rather irrelevant and your comparison is scuppered at the first hurdle.

I'm scuppered??!! I thought cycling on the footpath was illegal?? And not sure where the 18mph came from.

But happy to be corrected on both counts.

 

I regularly have to travel well below the speed limit due to traffic, so I have all the experience needed.

what?? Guess I'll reply with a similar relevance and in the same vane. So, I regularly wear a red jumper, so I have all the experience needed

 

 

 

To eat your cake and have it is a common idiom.

I know, heard it many times. But usually its placed in the right context and adds some meaning to the conversation. Your's was just a cliché thrown in for the sake of it.

 

If you think you can match the pace of any car at a junction, you are very wrong. The average velocity from a stop position of a car is approx 3-4m/s(2). The average velocity of an adult cyclist from a stop psition is less than is 1.8 ms-2.

another amateur scientist working from books instead of common sense and actual practice. I'm not talking high speed dual carriage way junctions or steep uphills, just average ones, nor am I comparing myself to heavy footed, competitive drivers - just average Joes. Like it or not fella, at both the brookhill roundabouts or the Waitrose one at the bottom of Eccy Road, I'm in there matching the speed of other traffic.

 

 

 

Arrogance is the exaggerated sense of importance or abilities. The Op was speaking for all cyclists, so this does fall into this category

Im sure he can speak for himself, but he only said the same as others, so wasn't alone.

 

It's crazy that as soon as you ask cyclists do do something different, which is safer for all, they are up in arms. Other roads users have had to adjust their use of the highway to accommodate cyclists. It seems reciprocate is not in their vocabulary.

What is it we need to do? Get off YOUR roads?

 

You're just arguing now cos you can, possibly attention seeking, so unless you come up with some better material, think I'm done on this minor exchange.

[Cyclone]

I think there are a lot of places where shared use (cyclists and pedestrians) are pretty useless for the experienced and fit cyclists, for the reasons you give, especially on busy urban roads where the differential speed between cycles and cars is low.

 

However, some slower and less experienced (or just nervous) cyclists may still prefer to share with pedestrians.

I totally agree.

 

The big area where I would advocate cycle/pedestrian shared use is on faster roads with fewer junctions (and with higher differential speed between cycles and motor vehicles), typically out of town and on the edge of towns but also on some ring roads and equivalent, and where pedestrians are few and far between. Cyclists can travel at a comfortable speed for themselves, and only occasionally come across junctions or pedestrians where they need to give way.

 

That might make sense. And the cyclists will use the shared space if they agree and the road if they don't.

 

---------- Post added 29-01-2016 at 14:01 ----------

 

18mph is the legal limit for cycling on the footpath, so complaining that 20mph is not full pelt is rather irrelevant and your comparison is scuppered at the first hurdle.

What nonsense is this?

You can't currently, legally, cycle on the pavement unless it's designated as a cycle lane or shared space. And there is no speed limit in those cases (nor are most bikes fitted with speedos).

18mph when mixing with pedestrians would be a disaster though, and a painful one.

 

I regularly have to travel well below the speed limit due to traffic, so I have all the experience needed.

You're really not getting it.

 

 

 

To eat your cake and have it is a common idiom.

Yes, but I'd like you to explain what is the cake analogous too?

 

If you think you can match the pace of any car at a junction, you are very wrong. The average velocity from a stop position of a car is approx 3-4m/s(2). The average velocity of an adult cyclist from a stop psition is less than is 1.8 ms-2.

You're confusing velocity with acceleration, back to physics 101 for you.

 

Arrogance is the exaggerated sense of importance or abilities. The Op was speaking for all cyclists, so this does fall into this category.

The OP wasn't speaking for anyone but himself as far as I can see.

 

It's crazy that as soon as you ask cyclists do do something different, which is safer for all, they are up in arms.

You're trying to demand that cycles move off the road and justifying it with "safer for all". What you actually mean is "more convenient for me", and even that's not actually true.

Other roads users have had to adjust their use of the highway to accommodate cyclists.

No they don't. They simply have to drive as defined within the law.

It seems reciprocate is not in their vocabulary.

 

You think not using the road is a form of compromise with car drivers who are merely expected to not run into people on bikes?

[999tigger]

18mph is the legal limit for cycling on the footpath, so complaining that 20mph is not full pelt is rather irrelevant and your comparison is scuppered at the first hurdle.

.

 

Since when? Got anything to back that up?

[Becky B]

18mph is the legal limit for cycling on the footpath, so complaining that 20mph is not full pelt is rather irrelevant and your comparison is scuppered at the first hurdle.

 

<snip>

 

If you think you can match the pace of any car at a junction, you are very wrong. The average velocity from a stop position of a car is approx 3-4m/s(2). The average velocity of an adult cyclist from a stop psition is less than is 1.8 ms-2.

 

 

 

18mph isn't the legal limit for cycling on the footpath, as it's not legal to cycle on the footpath (I know others have beaten me to it!).

I have heard the 18mph figure bandied about for cycle lanes, but I can't remember where. It was probably on here somewhere...

 

I regularly pull away from junctions faster than cars do, and I'm by no means anything special as a cyclist.

 

The argument about not using cycleways because you have to slow down/stop at every junction is perfectly understandable to anyone who does it. Take Penistone Road, for example. On the road, the main flow of traffic is controlled by lights. Cyclists on the cycle path have to slow significantly or stop to look behind them at every side road before continuing their progress. That makes a big difference over the stretch from Hillsborough to Shalesmoor, for example.

[Cycleracer]

To be completely fair, no matter what example I give you will say it doesn't work only to then walk off with a smug look on your face thinking you have won the argument. The fact that numerous european cities utilise shared footpaths with cyclists goes to show it does work. Maybe it's just an issue with British cyclists who are incapable of sharing the space adequately.

 

Never the less, the cyclists I saw using the shared footpath on St Marys road seemed content and capable of not veering into the traffic or cutting down pedestrians.

 

Maybe the issue is not other road/foot path users, but is, infact (some) cyclists who want everything their way and will not compromise.

 

Shared cycle lanes with pedestrians are actually used a lot with certain types of cycling commuters but they do slow you down considerably.

I like to ride 20mph plus so that is to dangerous to ride on a shared lane so I use the road.

If there is a cycle lane on the road then it usually does not restrict your speed and is much safer than the pedistrian mix lane unless you are passing a left turn junction and some maniac crosses your path which happens far to often