The Brexit. Has Cameroon Fooled us.

[Harrystottle]

Cameron has just tried to pull exactly the same trick that Harold Wilson used in the 1970's. "Everything is OK now! I've renegotiated a better deal for Britain!"

 

Smoke and mirrors, then and now. You can't "reform" the EU, you may as well try and reform a block of concrete. Either we like the rules and stay in, or we don't and leave. I vote leave.

[ANGELFIRE1]

So Cameron gets a deal to stay in the EU that works for you and me any everyones else in the UK and you think that's a bad thing.

 

You must a Corbyn Labour shill.

 

 

No, I am a Ukipper, a big fan of NF. UKip gets my vote.

 

Angel1.

 

---------- Post added 02-02-2016 at 22:21 ----------

 

What sort of deal would have you been happy with then?

 

 

Exactly what we voted for all those years ago. A COMMON MARKET, not to be a member of a Federal Europe, governed in essence by Germany.

 

Angel1.

 

---------- Post added 02-02-2016 at 22:30 ----------

 

If the OP chooses to use the derogatory term "fooled", then I can honestly say that, like her/him, nothing Cameron has achieved has "fooled" me into changing how I'll vote on this issue. The only difference will be that the OP will vote "NO" and I'll still vote "YES" to stay in. No problem.

 

I agree with you, maybe "fooled" was a bad choice of words, pulling the wool over our eyes would have been better.

 

I simply adore giving foreigners abroad 55 MILLION quid EVERY day, no wonder we have to make severe cuts at home, I am amazed people can even consider voting for it. Even with our so called "rebate" we still put 12 billion into the EU kitty this year. No doubt, even more next year.

 

Angel1.

Edited February 2, 2016 by ANGELFIRE1

[Eric Arthur]

It's going to take a bit longer for the negotiations to get to a point where I could make a decision one way or the other.

 

Has anyone here actually read Tusk's letter to the Members, http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2016/02/02-letter-tusk-proposal-new-settlement-uk/

 

Or Cameron's original letter to Tusk? https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/475679/Donald_Tusk_letter.pdf

 

 

The Guardian has a good rundown. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/feb/02/eu-renegotiation-donald-tusk-david-cameron-red-card-veto-eu-renegotiation-donald-tusk-publishes-draft-plan-to-address-camerons-concerns-politics-live

[I1L2T3]

Meaningful treaty change requires a lengthy process over years requiring the input and agreement of all member states.

 

This is not treaty change and it strikes me that two men meeting up in a room have contrived what is in effect a variation in our benefits system.

 

This is a complete sham and highlights some pretty unsavoury elements of the EU like the slow turning circle for meaningful change and a lack of democracy.

 

I'm 60:40 to stay in but my patience is wearing thin.

[L00b]

Has a decision on who can vote in the referendum been made, does anyone know?

 

The pro-exit group appeared to want the very people who benefit from being in the EU from voting. They wanted to exclude British people living and/or working abroad and non-British EU people working and/or living here from the referendum.

It would not be fair for us non-Brits to vote on this issue, since this is a decision affecting solely the British nation, that must accordingly be taken solely by British nationals (historical and naturalised). No non-Brit of any sort (including Commonwealth types who, unlike EU migrants, can vote in GEs, IIRC) should be allowed a vote about this.

 

It would however be fair to have expat Brits voting at their local embassy or consulate, by virtue of their nationality (else you end with a two-tier British nationality, and surely no Brit, even the semi-sensible types, would want that precedent to be set).

 

I don't expect any right to vote in this, but given a vote, I would vote to stay in, for self-preserving reasons since I have a lot to lose if the UK should Brexit. But it would be a 'head' vote that goes against the grain/'heart'. If I was Brit, right now, I'd be more minded to vote out.

 

The EU lost its way majorly last year, it's time to dole out severe a55 kicks and black eyes all round in Brussels and Strasbourg to 'adjust' EU types about who they're working for.

 

Cameron's deal is about halfway between what I was expecting (less) and what I was hoping to see (more). It's nowhere near as bad (or, well, 'inconsequential') as Eurosceptics and the Brexit-pushing section of mass media would have you believe. But he could, and should, have done much better given what mire the EU currently is in politically.

Edited February 3, 2016 by L00b

[Orzel]

Germans tried to take over whole Europe since fall of Roman empire.

Last attempts were military ones, now they try sneaky one.

EU started as free trade agreement but they are pushing for federal Europe.

It's not good for Britain or any country other then Germany.

It is nice theory but that whole EU commission, EU parliament and EU bureaucracy is not quite accountable.

That Tusk guy who Cameron has talks with is former polish prime minister.

He broke every promise he made before elections.

He raised every single tax that he promised he won't no matter what.

He was most hated politician in Poland. With no chance for any further career at home.

And somehow without anyone voting he was made President of the European Council.

Now how this happened? Might it be that he served Germans well and got his reward?

That is EU democracy for you.

[Eric Arthur]

Meaningful treaty change requires a lengthy process over years requiring the input and agreement of all member states.

 

This is not treaty change and it strikes me that two men meeting up in a room have contrived what is in effect a variation in our benefits system.

 

This is a complete sham and highlights some pretty unsavoury elements of the EU like the slow turning circle for meaningful change and a lack of democracy.

 

I'm 60:40 to stay in but my patience is wearing thin.

 

You and I don't often agree but I'm with you in general here, even down to the 60/40 conclusion. Where I disagree is that I don't think that it's a sham, it's that we expect something that isn't being discussed which is why I linked the two key documents. The press aren't being helpful at all.

[Michaeldyn]

The average Brit is so dumb. they will believe whatever media tells them. We will be voted to stay in EU and nothing will change, Brits are so stupid , Just think how many people buys tabloid newspaper every day and getting brain wash by it

[retep]

So Camerloon comes back with egg dripping from under his hat, and expects the British public to stand for the same trick.

[hyper]

here you go, from today's press ....

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/cameron-secures-leftover-sandwiches-for-uk-20160203105866