The Brexit. Has Cameroon Fooled us.

[ECCOnoob]

Hardly. Just because the hysterical papers call it a disaster does not mean it is one.

 

Lets look at some facts here. Cameron has gone out with some aims he wants to achieve. He has done some negotiations and a DRAFT proposal is being made. FURTHER NEGOTIATIONS are still to be completed.

 

Ok, so he has come back with not everything he wants. But that's what happens when you negotiate. You raise arguments and make compromises to try and reach some agreement.

 

Proposals are now on the table and we voting public and other MPs can read into it whatever we want.

 

Cameron has made his stance clear and he is entitled to do so.

 

Now everyone else has a freedom of choice to take it as read and make their own decision.

 

Im getting so bored of all this "broken promises" "failure" "shambles" horse crap. It was a negotiation that's all. A result has been given. We choose how to action upon it.

 

Say what you like but Cameron has achieved far more movement in the past few months than slimeball Farage has done in 15 years. Nobody kicking off about that amazingly. Sat on his fat behind taking his public monies in the European Parliament and done chuff all. Doesn't even turn up to half of the votes.

 

All these morons who keep spouting " Vote UKIP" What for? What they gonna do?

 

After this referendum has taken place their sole purpose is dead.

Edited February 3, 2016 by ECCOnoob

[srt2016]

Hardly. Just because the hysterical papers call it a disaster does not mean it is one.

 

Lets look at some facts here. Cameron has gone out with some aims he wants to achieve. He has done some negotiations and a DRAFT proposal is being made. FURTHER NEGOTIATIONS are still to be completed.

 

Ok, so he has come back with not everything he wants. But that's what happens when you negotiate. You raise arguments and make compromises to try and reach some agreement.

 

Proposals are now on the table and we voting public and other MPs can read into it whatever we want.

 

Cameron has made his stance clear and he is entitled to do so.

 

Now everyone else has a freedom of choice to take it as read and make their own decision.

 

Im getting so bored of all this "broken promises" "failure" "shambles" horse crap. It was a negotiation that's all. A result has been given. We choose how to action upon it.

 

Say what you like but Cameron has achieved far more movement in the past few months than slimeball Farage has done in 15 years. Nobody kicking off about that amazingly. Sat on his fat behind taking his public monies in the European Parliament and done chuff all. Doesn't even turn up to half of the votes.

 

All these morons who keep spouting " Vote UKIP" What for? What they gonna do?

 

After this referendum has taken place their sole purpose is dead.

 

If it wasn't for the slimeball there would be no (pretend) negotiations as there would be no need.There would be no Vote on the EU at all.

Thankfully there is and its entirely due to the hard work of one man in the face of everything Westminster and the media could throw at him.

The man deserves a medal!

[max]

It would not be fair for us non-Brits to vote on this issue, since this is a decision affecting solely the British nation, that must accordingly be taken solely by British nationals (historical and naturalised). No non-Brit of any sort (including Commonwealth types who, unlike EU migrants, can vote in GEs, IIRC) should be allowed a vote about this.

 

It would however be fair to have expat Brits voting at their local embassy or consulate, by virtue of their nationality (else you end with a two-tier British nationality, and surely no Brit, even the semi-sensible types, would want that precedent to be set).

 

I don't expect any right to vote in this, but given a vote, I would vote to stay in, for self-preserving reasons since I have a lot to lose if the UK should Brexit. But it would be a 'head' vote that goes against the grain/'heart'. If I was Brit, right now, I'd be more minded to vote out.

 

The EU lost its way majorly last year, it's time to dole out severe a55 kicks and black eyes all round in Brussels and Strasbourg to 'adjust' EU types about who they're working for.

 

Cameron's deal is about halfway between what I was expecting (less) and what I was hoping to see (more). It's nowhere near as bad (or, well, 'inconsequential') as Eurosceptics and the Brexit-pushing section of mass media would have you believe. But he could, and should, have done much better given what mire the EU currently is in politically.

 

Thanks.

 

Just seen this on BBC from yesterday:

 

Who will be able to vote?

British, Irish and Commonwealth citizens over 18 who are resident in the UK, along with UK nationals who have lived overseas for less than 15 years. Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar will also be eligible, unlike in a general election. Citizens from EU countries - apart from Ireland, Malta and Cyprus - will not get a vote.

[ECCOnoob]

If it wasn't for the slimeball there would be no (pretend) negotiations as there would be no need.There would be no Vote on the EU at all.

Thankfully there is and its entirely due to the hard work of one man in the face of everything Westminster and the media could throw at him.

The man deserves a medal!

 

Rubbish.

 

You don't think hard line EU sceptics aren't already within the Tory Ranks.

 

Farage may talk the talk but after losing repeated elections and having his sole MPs clinging on by a tread you really think he had that much influence.

 

Against Labour maybe but certainly not the tories.

 

The man is a walking publicity stunt. A talking head for the media to drag out for each and every story that has even a vague whiff of EU about it.

 

In terms of real credibility and power he has as much as Katie Hopkins or Piers Morgan.

[srt2016]

Rubbish.

 

You don't think hard line EU sceptics aren't already within the Tory Ranks.

 

Farage may talk the talk but after losing repeated elections and having his sole MPs clinging on by a tread you really think he had that much influence.

 

Against Labour maybe but certainly not the tories.

 

Sorry im lost explain.

 

How did EU sceptics in the tory party influence the CHANGE in stance of allowing a vote?

 

The prior slimy labour leader made it clear he was giving no vote.It cost him dearly.

[L00b]

Thanks.

 

Just seen this on BBC from yesterday:

I'm surprised the Irish, Maltese, Cypriots and Commonwealth types (those on the UK electoral roll presumably, that is) are getting a vote.

 

Off the cuff, makes no odds to the Irish whether the UK stays in or out (they'll still travel relatively freely to and from the UK under agreements long pre-dating the UK's accession to the EU), the Maltese are likely to want to stay in (EU money has been good to them), and the Cypriots may vote towards a Brexit, between the financial haircut the EU forced on the islanders recently, and the EU's still more recent welcoming noises to Turkey which few Cypriots are likely to countenance.

 

I've been uh-ming and ah-ing some about the 18 age limit, opinion still undecided. It's there to ensure voters are equipped with enough smarts to make an informed choice at the ballot box as a question of principle...but a decision to Brexit will impact 16-17 years olds to substantially the same extent as 18-21 (say), and it's a non-trivial aspect of their common future which is at stake here.

[tinfoilhat]

I listened to 5live last night and was staggered over the ignorance shown by the 3?4? members of public on the panel on Phil williams show last night, none of which was corrected by the host. The university student wanted it all dumbing down to bite sized chunks so him and his fellow students could understand it.

[retep]

Rubbish.

 

You don't think hard line EU sceptics aren't already within the Tory Ranks.

 

Farage may talk the talk but after losing repeated elections and having his sole MPs clinging on by a tread you really think he had that much influence.

 

Against Labour maybe but certainly not the tories.

 

The man is a walking publicity stunt. A talking head for the media to drag out for each and every story that has even a vague whiff of EU about it.

 

In terms of real credibility and power he has as much as Katie Hopkins or Piers Morgan.

 

You forgot Camerloon.

[Quik]

As far as I can see the only real tangible change that cameron has 'achieved' is a commitment that the EU will annually audit all of its powers. This is be presented as some breakthrough that will result in powers being repatriated but anyone with a passing knowledge of how the EU works would be fooled by this. What will actually happen is another expensive layer of eurocrats will be added to produce propaganda saying everything is great and any failing are down to insufficiently large budgets and/or the need for more rather than less powers for the EU. Likely coupled with a proposal that the costs of the new office are taken out if the British rebate as it is after all only there at our insistence.

[MickyA]

The EU and the FA are certainly being run in the same way, they now have far too many powers and we in the UK are taken being taken for mugs. I wouldn't say that Cameron has fooled anyone as anyone in their right mind would have figured that he was asking for far too little and wasn't even going to get that, I like many believe that the things he has on the table now were on the table from the very beginning and this trip was all smoke and mirrors.