Anti-vaccine attitudes based on that false claim still exist

[onewheeldave]

 

WHAT CLAIM ARE YOU MAKING?

 

Go on. It's not difficult. Tell us what you are claiming. Tell us how all these links prove it. Surely for someone with a figure 99.7% or whatever it is smarter than the average bear it should be easy right?

 

The links I've given aren't generally trying to prove anything, in the main, they are links to people who've worked within the systems in question, who have educations and experience in the relevant fields that far exceed your own, and, who are exposing the corruption endemic within the medical trials/research systems.

 

The claim I'm making is that people with way more knowledge than you are claiming that the system is very corrupt.

 

---------- Post added 23-02-2016 at 21:30 ----------

 

Oh trust me you so do need it....

 

Trust me, trying to force 'help' on people is only ever going to lead to frustration.

[Obelix]

The links I've given aren't generally trying to prove anything, in the main, they are links to people who've worked within the systems in question, who have educations and experience in the relevant fields that far exceed your own,

 

You've no idea of my experience in the field btw. Just saying..

 

and, who are exposing the corruption endemic within the medical trials/research systems.

 

Thats the point. They are not making that claim - in any way shape or form. You've posted nothing at all that even leads towards such a claim.

 

The claim I'm making is that people with way more knowledge than you are claiming that the system is very corrupt.

 

And your claim is demonstrably false because none of the links you have posted make that claim.

[onewheeldave]

You've no idea of my experience in the field btw. Just saying..

I know it's less than Dr. Peter Gotzsche (co-founder of the Cochrane Collaboration)

 

Thats the point. They are not making that claim - in any way shape or form. You've posted nothing at all that even leads towards such a claim.

 

 

And your claim is demonstrably false because none of the links you have posted make that claim.

I've offered to find you a link to a video of Dr. Peter Gotzsche making his claims. Twice. Offers still there.

[Obelix]

Post #298

 

You said

 

Fair enough. I know it does not misrepresent Dr. Peter Gotzsche as I've seen many videos of him talking and giving lectures.

 

I know you guys don't accept video links, so, that's that.

 

I don't bother noting which videos I've watched, as I know that you guys don't accept videos as evidence.

 

(....)

 

If you have started accepting videos, let me know, and, in future, I'll note down what I'm watching.

 

So from that then it's clear you were not going to post up where to find them, despite me asking for them and indicating Id be happy.

 

I can only conclude that you are deliberately trolling now. You don't care about the science or the debate. You just want a reaction.

[onewheeldave]

Post #298

 

You said

 

 

 

So from that then it's clear you were not going to post up where to find them, despite me asking for them and indicating Id be happy.

 

I can only conclude that you are deliberately trolling now. You don't care about the science or the debate. You just want a reaction.

 

Again, you're misinterpreted what I said.

 

Here's a video link

 

 

 

"Dr Peter Gøtzsche exposes big pharma as organized crime"- a sensationalist title, however Dr Peter Gøtzsche does indeed say that it is the case.

 

7 minutes long, his stance is pretty clear right from the start.

[Obelix]

Again, you're misinterpreted what I said.

 

I have little interest in what you have to say any more.

[onewheeldave]

I have little interest in what you have to say any more.

 

What a surprise

[cgksheff]

Again, you're misinterpreted what I said.

 

Here's a video link

 

 

 

"Dr Peter Gøtzsche exposes big pharma as organized crime"- a sensationalist title, however Dr Peter Gøtzsche does indeed say that it is the case.

 

7 minutes long, his stance is pretty clear right from the start.

 

The man is nuts ... using claims like anti-depressants cause people to fall, break hips and die, to bolster his argument.

[sgtkate]

The man is nuts ... using claims like anti-depressants cause people to fall, break hips and die, to bolster his argument.

 

ckgsheff, I've not seen that particular video I'll admit, but that guy and the research group he works for is actually highly regarded and one of the very few people I'd listen to about corruption in medical trials and studies. Doesn't mean he's right on everything, but if you look up the Cochrane Group you can see a lot of valid, peer-reviewed and accepted studies that they've done showing how large number of medical trials are conducted in a less than satisfactory manner, whether intentionally or not. But, he's arguing for better measuring and controls on trials and not arguing that the entire medical industry is corrupt and that vaccines cause MMR or that the drugs that have been released after 'poor' trials have caused anymore damage to the population as a whole than if they'd been blocked.

 

Sadly, it appears that MAC33 on this thread doesn't understand this, and I'm not totally sure onewheeldave does either, although he's not been very clear on what he believes to be honest.

[Cyclone]

NO. Answer my question, or leave it- I've got way better things to do than p*ss*ng contests.

 

You're idea of logical debate is that you post links to papers. You then refuse to explain what point you think they are proving, and instead you demand that people who disagree with you have to guess at the point, presumably so that you can then say "no, that wasn't the point".

 

You sound absolutely ridiculous.

 

---------- Post added 24-02-2016 at 08:59 ----------

 

That's probably the source of the problem. I've not asked for help. I don't need your help.

 

You do, because you've started with false axioms and reached an erroneous and highly dangerous logical conclusion about vaccination.

 

---------- Post added 24-02-2016 at 09:02 ----------

 

The links I've given aren't generally trying to prove anything, in the main, they are links to people who've worked within the systems in question, who have educations and experience in the relevant fields that far exceed your own, and, who are exposing the corruption endemic within the medical trials/research systems.

 

The claim I'm making is that people with way more knowledge than you are claiming that the system is very corrupt.

 

That link that you supported did not expose corruption or suggest that the system was corrupt.

It was simply arguing for larger, more statistically rigorous trials. Much like Cochrane reviews are systematic ones, forming the largest statistically relevant group possible from all the (quality) previous trials that have taken place and analysing the results of that.

 

---------- Post added 24-02-2016 at 09:02 ----------

 

I know it's less than Dr. Peter Gotzsche (co-founder of the Cochrane Collaboration)

 

 

I've offered to find you a link to a video of Dr. Peter Gotzsche making his claims. Twice. Offers still there.

 

So, not a publication then?

 

Basically just a reference to authority.

 

---------- Post added 24-02-2016 at 09:04 ----------

 

What a surprise

 

The fact that you refuse to answer simple questions and duck and dive to avoid actually stating a position makes it quite clear why Obelix would be tired of attempting to converse with you.

You're not interested in discussion, you're interested in avoiding being pinned down and proven to be wrong.