Anti-vaccine attitudes based on that false claim still exist

[Cyclone]

Why do you persist in calling people who disagree with a minority view "skeptics"?

Shall we call you "conspiracy minded"?

What is we're skeptical of, apart from your fantastical claims that lack evidence?

 

Some of the aluminium compounds also strengthen immune reactions, adjuncts I believe is the technical term for them.

[Obelix]

The NHS disagrees with you on that one-

 

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/pages/vaccine-ingredients.aspx

 

(They're not disagreeing with your assertion that they're part of the manufacturing process- that's part of the info on the page, but, clearly they consider that they are actually 'ingredients').

 

Talk about selective reading...

 

From the page you quoted!

 

"These ingredient lists include any products used in the making of a vaccine, even though most are only needed during the production process and are removed or only found in tiny amounts in the final vaccine."

 

Which makes it abundantly clear that Cyclones point is correct. Do you think we wont look, or we would just ignore your blatant "interpretation" of the facts?

[JFKvsNixon]

Why do you persist in calling people who disagree with a minority view "skeptics"?

Shall we call you "conspiracy minded"?

What is we're skeptical of, apart from your fantastical claims that lack evidence?

 

Some of the aluminium compounds also strengthen immune reactions, adjuncts I believe is the technical term for them.

 

I think that he's labelling people who are skeptical of the skeptics as being skeptics.

[Obelix]

Why do you persist in calling people who disagree with a minority view "skeptics"?

Shall we call you "conspiracy minded"?

What is we're skeptical of, apart from your fantastical claims that lack evidence?

 

Some of the aluminium compounds also strengthen immune reactions, adjuncts I believe is the technical term for them.

 

Yup. The enhancing effect of aluminium was found by accident when vaccines injected from aluminium flasks were found to be much better than ones from glass. The leached aluminium had a great effect and meant that you needed less vaccine, which reduced vaccine side effects ironically - the exact opposite of what the conspiracy-minded choose to believe.

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 11:12 ----------

 

 

those skeptic types distressed by the fact that a lot of anti-vaccinators get their info from 'unofficial' sources might start to understand that if they focused more on giving out helpfull info, rather than trying to get off on putting people down, then said people may spend less time stumbling across the internet getting their ideas from wherever?

 

Those conspiracy types distressed by the fact that people trying to help them dont give out links might like to concentrate on the point that it's not our job to spoon feed conspiracy types (for they dont then get practiced at finding information) and if they are encouraged to critically evaluate evidence and get some training then they wont have to remain as conspiracy-types stumbling along in the dark.

[unbeliever]

Remember Smallpox. It's effectively extinct now.

The Smallpox vaccine was the first.

The first version of the vaccine was actually a lesser (non fatal) disease called cow pox. The word vaccine actually comes from the latin vacca meaning cow.

 

Predates "big pharma" by a good long time.

Small pox used to kill 400,000 people per year in Europe alone at a time when the population of Europe was about a third of what it is now.

 

Anybody think we'd have been better off without the first vaccine?

[onewheeldave]

The aluminium and thimerosal are used to stop bacterial growth in the vaccine. Same for formaldehyde. You dont want to be injecting a bacterial culture. The formaldehyde is also used to weaken or kill the virus etc of interest as well in some vaccines

 

Vero cells, calf serum, chicken, etc are the growth medium that the vaccine is cultured in. Vaccines are dead or attenuated but they need something to grow in whilst they are alive - hence these carrier components that are present.

 

Thanks.

 

Some vegans are not going to use vaccines that contain animal ingredients. Veganism is about to explode (IMO). If that happens, in terms of encouraging vaccine uptake, it would be wise for health services to offer vegan versions of all vaccines.

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 11:21 ----------

 

Talk about selective reading...

 

From the page you quoted!

 

"These ingredient lists include any products used in the making of a vaccine, even though most are only needed during the production process and are removed or only found in tiny amounts in the final vaccine."

 

Which makes it abundantly clear that Cyclones point is correct. Do you think we wont look, or we would just ignore your blatant "interpretation" of the facts?

 

Like I specifically pointed out in my quote-

 

The NHS disagrees with you on that one-

 

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccina...gredients.aspx

 

(They're not disagreeing with your assertion that they're part of the manufacturing process- that's part of the info on the page, but, clearly they consider that they are actually 'ingredients').

 

I've put it in bold this time, to help you spot it.

[JFKvsNixon]

Thanks.

 

Some vegans are not going to use vaccines that contain animal ingredients. Veganism is about to explode (IMO). If that happens, in terms of encouraging vaccine uptake, it would be wise for health services to offer vegan versions of all vaccines.

 

Some routine drugs and IV fluids also contain animal products, should every ingredient of a drug or IV fluid listed to every patient before every administration of them?

[onewheeldave]

 

Those conspiracy types distressed by the fact that people trying to help them dont give out links might like to concentrate on the point that it's not our job to spoon feed conspiracy types (for they dont then get practiced at finding information) and if they are encouraged to critically evaluate evidence and get some training then they wont have to remain as conspiracy-types stumbling along in the dark.

 

Fair enough. Fact remains that, if you give them helpful links to orthodox/establishment info, the time they spend looking at said info, is time not spent getting info from anti-vaccine sources.

 

Also, your approach comes across, to 'conspiracy types', as being aloof/arrogant/egotistical to them.

[Cyclone]

Thanks.

 

Some vegans are not going to use vaccines that contain animal ingredients. Veganism is about to explode (IMO). If that happens, in terms of encouraging vaccine uptake, it would be wise for health services to offer vegan versions of all vaccines.

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 11:21 ----------

 

 

Like I specifically pointed out in my quote-

 

 

 

I've put it in bold this time, to help you spot it.

 

They specifically comment that they are either removed entirely or only left in trace amounts...

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 11:29 ----------

 

Fair enough. Fact remains that, if you give them helpful links to orthodox/establishment info, the time they spend looking at said info, is time not spent getting info from anti-vaccine sources.

 

Also, your approach comes across, to 'conspiracy types', as being aloof/arrogant/egotistical to them.

 

Given that it's not our job to educate the ignorant, is that really surprising?

 

I'm not interested in making anti-vaccers feel good about themselves. They're stupid and a danger to themselves and more importantly others because they lack the intelligence to understand the scientific method and are so gullible that they believe what they watch on youtube.

[onewheeldave]

Remember Smallpox. It's effectively extinct now.

The Smallpox vaccine was the first.

The first version of the vaccine was actually a lesser (non fatal) disease called cow pox. The word vaccine actually comes from the latin vacca meaning cow.

 

Predates "big pharma" by a good long time.

Small pox used to kill 400,000 people per year in Europe alone at a time when the population of Europe was about a third of what it is now.

 

Anybody think we'd have been better off without the first vaccine?

 

A lot of those labelled as 'anti-vaccine' are not against vaccines per se.

 

A lot of them probably approve smallpox vaccine, single measles vaccine, etc- yet oppose compulsory vaccines, giving of close to 50 vaccines to under 6's, giving flu vaccines to under 5's etc, etc.

 

Some of these people do not have an issue with vaccines- they have an issue with the extent of modern vaccination programs. They are strong on personal liberty, and so oppose compulsory vaccines. They mistrust quoted pro-vaccine studies because they are aware of pharmaceutical company corruption/influence of such sources.

 

Now, with veganism growing stronger, some are going to have an issue with lack of vegan vaccines.

 

You've got a lot of people opposing these aspects, who are not necessarily anti-vaccine per se

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 11:34 ----------

 

Given that it's not our job to educate the ignorant, is that really surprising?

 

 

If you're not trying to educate those who you see as being 'ignorant', what are you trying to achieve on this thread?

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 11:37 ----------

 

Some routine drugs and IV fluids also contain animal products, should every ingredient of a drug or IV fluid listed to every patient before every administration of them?

 

Yes. As far as possible, of course the ingredients of drugs should be available to patients (with exceptions where that's not possible e.g. emergencies etc). A simple printed list would suffice- just as prescribed drugs contain printed lists of potential side effects etc.

 

Just as ingredients are legally required on foods- it enables people to make important decisions about what they eat.

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 11:38 ----------

 

 

I'm not interested in making anti-vaccers feel good about themselves. They're stupid and a danger to themselves and more importantly others because they lack the intelligence to understand the scientific method and are so gullible that they believe what they watch on youtube.

 

You do realise that there's also a lot of genuine stuff on youtube? Or do you just dismiss any youtube video as worthless, regardless of it's actual content?