Anti-vaccine attitudes based on that false claim still exist

[JFKvsNixon]

I think he's asking a genuine question?

 

Remember that on this thread, the previous time stats concerning vaccinations was posted, it quickly became apparent that cases had shown a significant decrease (this was a point of discussion/debate/disagreement) before vaccinations started.

 

To some of us, that cast serious doubt on whether vaccines caused the continuing drop.

 

The Spanish Flu happened a long time ago. Medical knowledge has moved on greatly since then, so what can be concluded from the answer to such a question?

[onewheeldave]

It depends on how urgent the referral is, I've know patients to see a specialist in the same week that they're referred.

 

I think that being it's important that a specialist does review anyone who's still having problems, even though they are on the recommended dose so the can both rule out anything else that may be going on and suggest a more suitable form of treatment.

It is important to try and rule out other possible causes.

 

Fact remains, that with b12 deficienncy, the priority is getting b12 into the patient to stall irreversible nerve damage.

 

I've had personal experience of being expected to wait 2 months to see a hand specialist after breaking my hand.

 

Luckily I defied expectations, got to see one much earlier, and, as a direct result of being able to get advice from a specialist, was able to get to work on keeping it mobile, and, it made a much better recovery than if I had waited the 2 months.

 

When it came to b12 deficiency, there was also an expectation that I'd wait till it was confirmed by a specialist, however, unlike most patients, I went out and sourced my own supply of methocobalamin (b12) and, taught myself how to inject it intramuscularly.

 

I would much rather have had it done, on the spot, by medical professionals, but, that was not an option, so I sorted it out myself.

 

I do hope, that when I get back to the GP, I'll still have the option of seeing a specialist in b12 to rule out other factors, but, given the current state of the NHS, I'll be going in with very-low expectations &, hoping for the best.

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 21:54 ----------

 

The Spanish Flu happened a long time ago. Medical knowledge has moved on greatly since then, so what can be concluded from the answer to such a question?

 

Ah- 'Spanish flu' was the big 1918 flu pandemic, which killed mainly those with strong immune systems. Not sure how relevant vaccines were with that one.

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 22:00 ----------

 

Interestingly, as I was perusing the wiki article on spanish flu, this popped up-

 

Aspirin poisoning

In a 2009 paper published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases, Karen Starko proposed that aspirin poisoning had contributed substantially to the fatalities. She based this on the reported symptoms in those dying from the flu, as reported in the post mortem reports still available, and also the timing of the big "death spike" in October 1918 which happened right after the Surgeon General of the United States Army, and the Journal of the American Medical Association both recommended very large (by today's standards) dosages of aspirin.[69] Further, Starko suggests that the wave of aspirin poisonings was due to a "perfect storm" of events: Bayer's patent on aspirin expired, so that many companies rushed in to make a profit and greatly increased the supply; this coincided with the flu pandemic; and the symptoms of aspirin poisoning were not known at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_flu_pandemic

 

Not saying it's true, but, definitely an unusual & interesting hypothesis.

[Cyclone]

I think he's asking a genuine question?

 

Remember that on this thread, the previous time stats concerning vaccinations was posted, it quickly became apparent that cases had shown a significant decrease (this was a point of discussion/debate/disagreement) before vaccinations started.

 

To some of us, that cast serious doubt on whether vaccines caused the continuing drop.

 

An entirely normal up and down movement of the graph as had happened throughout the record before the vaccine.

Followed by an almost immediate drop to zero, without moving since.

 

Yet you persist in pretending that the drop before the vaccine was somehow unusual instead of being a regression to the mean after a particularly bad year for the disease the year before.

You're desperate for evidence that supports your view, rather than objectively assessing what evidence exists.

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 22:20 ----------

 

I think he's asking a genuine question?

 

Remember that on this thread, the previous time stats concerning vaccinations was posted, it quickly became apparent that cases had shown a significant decrease (this was a point of discussion/debate/disagreement) before vaccinations started.

 

To some of us, that cast serious doubt on whether vaccines caused the continuing drop.

 

He's not asking a genuine question unless he genuinely doesn't understand the purpose of a vaccine... which is obviously NOT a treatment or a cure for someone with a disease...

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 22:22 ----------

 

So your b12 information is speculation and heresy. Because it's convenient for you, you've done no further digging to actually find out if what you've been told is true or not.

 

And your refutation of the death rates (actual recorded ones) across multiple countries for influenza is NOT a conspiracy to lie, but a systematic problem that somehow (you don't say how) causes the number of dead children to be incorrectly counted... You're desperate to not see any evidence that the flu vaccine is safer than getting the flu.

[Obelix]

I think he's asking a genuine question?

 

Remember that on this thread, the previous time stats concerning vaccinations was posted, it quickly became apparent that cases had shown a significant decrease (this was a point of discussion/debate/disagreement) before vaccinations started.

 

As explained to you before, it is not apparant at all as the overall trend of the graph at that point is upwards! You are quite simply choosing to post what you want, in teh face of the evidence that even you agree is accurate.

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 23:08 ----------

 

I prefer the old days, when people got flu etc, the vast majority recovered completely,

 

Like when they got Spanish Flu yes? Most recovered. Hardly anyone died.

 

[retep]

An entirely normal up and down movement of the graph as had happened throughout the record before the vaccine.

Followed by an almost immediate drop to zero, without moving since.

 

Yet you persist in pretending that the drop before the vaccine was somehow unusual instead of being a regression to the mean after a particularly bad year for the disease the year before.

You're desperate for evidence that supports your view, rather than objectively assessing what evidence exists.

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 22:20 ----------

 

 

He's not asking a genuine question unless he genuinely doesn't understand the purpose of a vaccine... which is obviously NOT a treatment or a cure for someone with a disease...

 

---------- Post added 02-03-2016 at 22:22 ----------

 

So your b12 information is speculation and heresy. Because it's convenient for you, you've done no further digging to actually find out if what you've been told is true or not.

 

And your refutation of the death rates (actual recorded ones) across multiple countries for influenza is NOT a conspiracy to lie, but a systematic problem that somehow (you don't say how) causes the number of dead children to be incorrectly counted... You're desperate to not see any evidence that the flu vaccine is safer than getting the flu.

 

He was asking a genuine question to which he already knew the answer, Perhaps I should have made it clearer and put prevent, but you already got the gist didn't you, the rest is just you trolling.

[onewheeldave]

So your b12 information is speculation and heresy. Because it's convenient for you, you've done no further digging to actually find out if what you've been told is true or not.

 

 

I think you've over-generalised there! Yes, when it comes to one-specific assertion, that of the Japanese medical system setting the lower safe limit as 500, I don't have a link to proof.

 

As 'digging further' would likely require negotiating actual japanese health service websites, which often tend to be in Japanese language, a language which I have very little proficiency in, I'll not bother, given that I think the probability that in Japan it's set as 500, is very high.

[MAC33]

Truth is what you believe in...

 

 

A hundred years from now, we will look back at our medical system and recognize how barbaric and primitive it is. Modern medical schools and research have all been funded by pharmaceutical companies, which have engineered a standard medical philosophy and eviscerated any opposing views. Medical science is narrow and limited, with a dim understanding of the complexities of the human body/mind.

 

They have chosen to ignore the effects of consciousness, or even just psychology, on a person's health, with the result being that most causes of illness are completely inexplicable to them. Because natural food and medicine cannot be patented, they do not play a role in medicine, regardless of how valuable they might be to healing. The only tools available are dangerous synthetic chemicals which have massive deleterious effects on the body that are poorly understood. Modern medicine is based on treating disease, not on supporting health.

 

Medical practice reflects the limited view of medical science, ignoring the patients' actual needs in favor of churning people through standard treatment protocols to address symptoms that match established criteria. Curiously, the patient, who they are ostensibly trying to help, doesn't really figure into it much, and their comfort doesn't seem to matter. The entire process of western "healthcare" couldn't possibly be better designed to make a patient feel worse, as outlined above. From the condescension of healthcare workers to unnecessary tests, getting caught in that system would be horrible on a good day. When you're feeling awful, it's pure torture.

 

Modern medicine is the leading cause of death in the United States. It's time to open our minds; we don't just need to refigure how we pay for and provide healthcare, we need to retool what healthcare is.

 

About the author

 

Jillian Perkins is a writer and independent researcher out of Portland, Oregon, focused on helping to free the world of medical dogma, economic and mental slavery, and chemical poisoning.

 

 

http://www.sott.net/article/313495-Sick-care-in-America-a-snap-shot

[unbeliever]

Truth is what you believe in...

 

 

A hundred years from now, we will look back at our medical system and recognize how barbaric and primitive it is. Modern medical schools and research have all been funded by pharmaceutical companies, which have engineered a standard medical philosophy and eviscerated any opposing views. Medical science is narrow and limited, with a dim understanding of the complexities of the human body/mind.

 

They have chosen to ignore the effects of consciousness, or even just psychology, on a person's health, with the result being that most causes of illness are completely inexplicable to them. Because natural food and medicine cannot be patented, they do not play a role in medicine, regardless of how valuable they might be to healing. The only tools available are dangerous synthetic chemicals which have massive deleterious effects on the body that are poorly understood. Modern medicine is based on treating disease, not on supporting health.

 

Medical practice reflects the limited view of medical science, ignoring the patients' actual needs in favor of churning people through standard treatment protocols to address symptoms that match established criteria. Curiously, the patient, who they are ostensibly trying to help, doesn't really figure into it much, and their comfort doesn't seem to matter. The entire process of western "healthcare" couldn't possibly be better designed to make a patient feel worse, as outlined above. From the condescension of healthcare workers to unnecessary tests, getting caught in that system would be horrible on a good day. When you're feeling awful, it's pure torture.

 

Modern medicine is the leading cause of death in the United States. It's time to open our minds; we don't just need to refigure how we pay for and provide healthcare, we need to retool what healthcare is.

 

About the author

 

Jillian Perkins is a writer and independent researcher out of Portland, Oregon, focused on helping to free the world of medical dogma, economic and mental slavery, and chemical poisoning.

 

 

http://www.sott.net/article/313495-Sick-care-in-America-a-snap-shot

 

Yes another appeal to authority.

Where's the evidence?

 

Truth is most certainly not what you believe in. That's the definition of opinion.

Truth is the accurate statement of reality. Reality can be tested by experimentation.

Edited March 3, 2016 by unbeliever

[onewheeldave]

Truth is what you believe in...

 

 

A hundred years from now, we will look back at our medical system and recognize how barbaric and primitive it is. Modern medical schools and research have all been funded by pharmaceutical companies, which have engineered a standard medical philosophy and eviscerated any opposing views. Medical science is narrow and limited, with a dim understanding of the complexities of the human body/mind.

 

They have chosen to ignore the effects of consciousness, or even just psychology, on a person's health, with the result being that most causes of illness are completely inexplicable to them. Because natural food and medicine cannot be patented, they do not play a role in medicine, regardless of how valuable they might be to healing. The only tools available are dangerous synthetic chemicals which have massive deleterious effects on the body that are poorly understood. Modern medicine is based on treating disease, not on supporting health.

 

Medical practice reflects the limited view of medical science, ignoring the patients' actual needs in favor of churning people through standard treatment protocols to address symptoms that match established criteria. Curiously, the patient, who they are ostensibly trying to help, doesn't really figure into it much, and their comfort doesn't seem to matter. The entire process of western "healthcare" couldn't possibly be better designed to make a patient feel worse, as outlined above. From the condescension of healthcare workers to unnecessary tests, getting caught in that system would be horrible on a good day. When you're feeling awful, it's pure torture.

 

Modern medicine is the leading cause of death in the United States. It's time to open our minds; we don't just need to refigure how we pay for and provide healthcare, we need to retool what healthcare is.

 

About the author

 

Jillian Perkins is a writer and independent researcher out of Portland, Oregon, focused on helping to free the world of medical dogma, economic and mental slavery, and chemical poisoning.

 

 

http://www.sott.net/article/313495-Sick-care-in-America-a-snap-shot

 

Very interesting link. Unnerving to read, as I could have written it myself

 

I agree 100% with it, except for-

 

 

A hundred years from now, we will look back at our medical system and recognize how barbaric and primitive it is.

As many of us are aware of it right here and now.

[Obelix]

Very interesting link. Unnerving to read, as I could have written it myself

 

I agree 100% with it, except for-

As many of us are aware of it right here and now.

 

You are yet again looking for data to fit the conculsion you want.

 

You are yet again taking one statement and using it to support the conclusion you want, without applying any critical thinking.