Would a dedicated cycle road network (bikes only), work in the UK?

[JFKvsNixon]

I agree, I too reckon the cyclists are on the west, just from observation.

And like I said earlier, its probably to do with where the best countryside is. It just so happens that the people in the areas you describe are the ones who can afford Garmins and monitor their fitness and mileage, whereas those on the east just use a cheap Apollo bike for transport without logging data. Sadly, its the Eastern riders who will be under represented when designing infrastructure

 

You don't need a Garmin to log you rides on Strava, you can use your smart phone.

[ANGELFIRE1]

There is not enough room on the roads for those who pay to use them, never mind a bloody lane for those who pay nowt, cyclists.

 

Angel1.

[JFKvsNixon]

There is not enough room on the roads for those who pay to use them, never mind a bloody lane for those who pay nowt, cyclists.

 

Angel1.

 

If there's not enough room on the roads, maybe it makes sense to get more people out of their cars and onto bikes?

[ANGELFIRE1]

If there's not enough room on the roads, maybe it makes sense to get more people out of their cars and onto bikes?

 

 

Wishful thinking, it will NEVER happen.

 

Angel1.

[Quik]

Spending a great deal of time crossing and driving on Boris's partially completed new east west cycle 'superhighway' I have found it to be more dangerous to all concerned. Segregated bike lanes are fine if you wish to eliminate pedestrians and junctions. However as that isn't possible they are a nightmare.

[Cyclone]

It tells you everything about cyclists of all types because Strava is the world's best and most reliable dataset for assessing cycle journeys and it is used by local and national governments for their transport infrastructure planning.

 

Sorry if it isn't good enough for you. Off you go and combine it with health statistics or any other relevant dataset and you'll get the same answer in Sheffield. There's even some low grade Sheffield Council data somewhere that backs it up.

 

You know that it's correct in your heart of hearts but you'd rather revert to type. Please don't.

 

I'm sure it tells us a lot about people riding for leisure.

Based on my own use and that of friends, I personally doubt it tells us very much about commuting.

 

---------- Post added 09-02-2016 at 22:36 ----------

 

It is the best dataset available though and it says one thing in Sheffield. Strava doesn't claim to capture all cycle journeys but it doesn't prevent anyone from using it for any purpose and if my own casual observations of being on either side of Sheffield are anything to go by it is bang on. The main roads on the west are full of bikes. The main roads on the east are devoid of bikes.

 

I'm not here to defend Strava but if you zoom into the detail between the high intensity use red you'll see plenty of blue low intensity on virtually all the minor roads on the west side and virtually zero blue on the east side. It doesn't take a genius to work out what's happening. These aren't day trippers from Firth Park riding aimlessly around Crosspool, Walkley, Ecclesall and Fulwood.

 

Crosspool and Fulwood though ARE on the route to the peaks for many cyclists. And these people WILL log their leisure cycling on strava.

 

---------- Post added 09-02-2016 at 22:37 ----------

 

I think we're agreeing that both Strava and our observations are probably correct. West is best and east is least when it comes to bike use.

He didn't say that at all.

And if it's commuting we're talking about, then strava isn't a very good tool for assessing it.

A road survey would be a far better tool.

[JFKvsNixon]

Wishful thinking, it will NEVER happen.

 

Angel1.

 

So whats the issue then? If you believe that nobody is going to use the cycling lanes, then they not going to clog up the roads even more.

[Cyclone]

Someone else who is pointing out that strava users are a self selecting subset of cyclists and so the heatmap data is suspect (although interesting).

 

http://ladyfleur.bike/2014/04/29/strava-heatmaps-what-do-they-truly-measure/

 

and yet I’m concerned about how Heatmap data is used, namely because it’s gathered from a select subset of cyclists. Strava doesn’t reveal demographics on who uses its service, but I’ve seen estimates in reports that it’s about 90% men. And I know that within my circle of cycling friends, Strava is more heavily used by those who are training to race or complete an endurance event. They’re mostly road riders and mountain bike racers who have raced at some point

 

The data is skewed to longer rides done be people who take the effort to log their ride on Strava using a smart phone or GPS. A 4 block ride for shopping or to the library is not likely to be logged.

 

So before you’re tempted to use Strava data to support bicycle policy or infrastructure changes, think carefully. If Strava data included trips by the average Joe, Jane, José or Jin-Wei biking across town to grocery shop instead of training data from cyclists tracking achievements, how would your recommendation change?

 

Which is exactly the point I was making. It's a skewed sample, and that needs to be remembered.

 

And some journalists have noticed this as well

 

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/22842/heat-maps-show-where-people-bike-or-at-least-where-affluent-people-exercise-by-bike/

 

It's a useful tool to chart the most popular bike trails, but the data skew heavily towards wealthier recreational cyclists and away from transportation and less affluent areas.

 

But while this is interesting stuff, it's unfortunately not very useful for urban transportation planning. Since 100% of Strava users care so much about speed that they've downloaded an app to measure it, and are wealthy enough to have a smartphone, the data skews seriously in favor of recreational cycling among affluent populations.

 

On the flip side, it seriously undercounts cyclists who bike as transportation simply to get from point A to point B. Likewise, it seriously undercounts lower income populations.

 

Perhaps this is why the East side of the city seems to have less cycling, at least according to the heatmap. It's less affluent, and people cycling for transport may well not be logging journeys even if they could.

 

---------- Post added 10-02-2016 at 09:12 ----------

 

It tells you everything about cyclists of all types because Strava is the world's best and most reliable dataset for assessing cycle journeys and it is used by local and national governments for their transport infrastructure planning.

 

So, no, it most definitely doesn't tell you everything about cyclists of all types.

It's quite clearly a self selecting, highly skewed dataset.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Cyclone

[Eric Arthur]

I'm sure it tells us a lot about people riding for leisure.

Based on my own use and that of friends, I personally doubt it tells us very much about commuting.

 

---------- Post added 09-02-2016 at 22:36 ----------

 

 

Crosspool and Fulwood though ARE on the route to the peaks for many cyclists. And these people WILL log their leisure cycling on strava.

 

---------- Post added 09-02-2016 at 22:37 ----------

 

He didn't say that at all.

And if it's commuting we're talking about, then strava isn't a very good tool for assessing it.

A road survey would be a far better tool.

Cyclone, first, get yourself some knowledge instead of relying on your half assed opinions. Start here http://metro.strava.com/faq/

 

 

Everyone else! For interest, a quick straw poll of the commuting cyclists in my workplace has over half using Strava to log their day to day journeys and Strava themselves,and of course a cyclist on a road is a cyclist on a road, no matter what their purpose happens to be. As pointed out above, anyone with a smartphone app can log their journeys and many do, for all sorts of journeys, most of which don't involve any sort of competition.

 

It's interesting that there's a better Sustrans network on the East side than the West side, but there's more journey's on the west side. Anecdotally, when I'm travelling into Sheffield by one of the main routes, Abbeydale Road Ecclesall Road, Fulwood Road, the number of commuters on bikes is noticeable. The opposite is true when I'm driving along Barnsley Road, Brightside Lane, Attercliffe Common and City Road. It's anecdotal, but it seems to agree with the data.

 

Hills don't seem to be the issue then. Hills aren't putting people off getting on a bike.

 

What is it about the populace on the east side, the poorer side apparently, that they aren't using bikes as much as the people on the west side the richer side, who could afford to choose what method they like. This is a big question that is at the root of the OP question. Would better infrastructure make much difference at all or is there some education or social issue that needs addressing first.

 

Another thing that does come to mind is traffic speeds and how people perceive the danger from traffic to bikes. The roads on the east side are quite big and fast. The roads on the west side are quite narrow and are slower with more congestion. Perhaps 20mph limits on the east side might get more people on their bike. The actual accident stats don't make it obvious if it is perception of danger or actual danger differences between east and west. http://www.crashmap.co.uk/Search

 

 

 

 

Cyclone, (everyone else feel free to skip this) you're just being obnoxious for the sake of it now. Your own lack of knowledge of what Strava actually is, what data it produces and who uses it for what purposes seems to be at the root of your ignorance, although that doesn't stop you having a half assed opinion. I haven't read your line by line response because I can't be bothered because previous experience tells me that you're just looking to cause a fight. You are getting all upset about a transport planning tool which suggests that you need to get out a bit more and get some life perspective back. Just put me on ignore if it helps your emotional state. Please just leave it alone and let everyone else move on with an interesting discussion between interested amateurs.

 

---------- Post added 10-02-2016 at 09:16 ----------

 

Wishful thinking, it will NEVER happen.

 

Angel1.

 

I keep hearing that cycling is massive these days so maybe it's not such wishful thinking. I agree that every bike on the road is a journey not being made in a car or bus. That must be a good thing that should be encouraged as much as possible. Incidentally, every motorist who uses a bike is getting a rough deal on what they pay to not use their vehicle and I'm sure that you aren't encouraging everyone to use their vehicle as much as possible to get their moneys worth out of the car tax and fuel duty. On balance as many people on bikes as possible has to be good for everyone including motorists.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Eric Arthur

[sutty27]

I'm not a cyclist, but this seems like a really good idea to me.

 

 

 

http://www.sunnyskyz.com/good-news/1467/Germany-Opens-62-Mile-Bicycle-Highway-That-s-Completely-Car-Free

 

http://www.fastcoexist.com/3055053/germanys-62-mile-bike-autobahn-connects-10-cities/3

 

---

 

I can see loads of benefits, including...

 

It would encourage more people to get on their bikes (or to get a bike in the first place).

Less traffic on our normal roads (as more people use bikes to get around).

Healthier population.

Less air pollution.

 

What do you think?

 

Councils won't even maintain the footpaths I walk on which leaves me with no choice but to occasionally walk on the road, the money they spent on useless cycle lanes would have been better spent on footpath maintenance.