Seven day NHS, free?

[sutty27]

OK, so we are back to you believing that unless something works 100% of the time, it isn't successful.

 

You can't prove that it worked any of the time.

 

My position is with the BMA. They are not a radical group who strikes at the drop of a hat. I believe that they are looking after the best interests of their members and also the patient's.

And I don't believe they are looking after the best interests of their members and patient's, the new contract looks better for both doctors and patients the down side is that some doctors won't be allowed to work themselves to the bone so will be a little poorer, but patients will be safer.

 

If Hunt hadn't acted in such a disingenuous manner all the way through these negotiations, I would be more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. You also have to remember his disingenuous attitude towards the nurses and midwives pay negotiations which also led to strikes.

Hunt didn't conduct the negotiations.

 

His only interest is getting the 7 day week of the ground. Which if he tries to get a 7 working week, whilst still giving the NHS the same resources that it gets to work a 5 day working week, it will also be an huge confrontation.

 

The new contract clearly shows that his interest is doctor and patient safety.

[JFKvsNixon]

You can't prove that it worked any of the time.

 

That's just a puerile argument.

 

 

And I don't believe they are looking after the best interests of their members and patient's, the new contract looks better for both doctors and patients the down side is that some doctors won't be allowed to work themselves to the bone so will be a little poorer, but patients will be safer.

 

So your position is that the BMA is pulling a fast one over their members, and their members don't have the intellectual ability to work it.

 

 

Hunt didn't conduct the negotiations.

 

No, but as I said his actions through these negotiations mirror his disingenuous attitude towards the nurses and midwives negotiations which also led to a strike, the first ever time that the midwives have gone on strike.

 

The new contract clearly shows that his interest is doctor and patient safety.

 

And we're back to you suggesting that the junior doctors do not have the intellectual ability to recognise that it's clear that they'd be better of under the new terms offered to them.

Edited February 15, 2016 by JFKvsNixon

[Cyclone]

I'd suggest that you give up arguing with an obvious troll.

The vast majority of the public support the junior doctors, one tory shill on this forum won't alter anything.

[sutty27]

I'd suggest that you give up arguing with an obvious troll.

The vast majority of the public support the junior doctors, one tory shill on this forum won't alter anything.

 

We are back to, if having a different opinion makes someone a troll, you must also be a troll.

 

Most of the public will simply be following the headlines and won't have come to their own opinion based on the facts.

Edited February 16, 2016 by sutty27

[Cyclone]

Doctors as opposed to Junior Doctors. Keep up.

 

You should be more clear, do you mean consultants then when you simply said "doctors"?

 

Doctors includes Junior Doctors and consultants.

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2016 at 10:09 ----------

 

We are back to, if having a different opinion makes someone a troll, you must also be a troll.

 

Most of the public will simply be following the headlines and won't have come to their own opinion based on the facts.

 

It's not your opinion that's the problem, it's the spin and the fact that it's a controversial one. Perhaps it's unfair, but arguing a controversial opinion so strongly looks a lot like just attempting to annoy people, aka trolling.

Funny that you mention facts though, your posts appear to be a bit light on them from what I see.

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2016 at 10:12 ----------

 

That's now, they are getting a pay rise.

 

Appendix A of the new contract says that the November offer was for F1 was £25,500 and the final contract is £27,000.

 

Summary of the 2016 contract

 

---------- Post added 15-02-2016 at 17:35 ----------

 

 

What the BMA think doesn't change the fact that a mechanism will be in place to stop doctors working more hours than they should.

 

That is not a summary of the contract, it's a letter stating that negotiations are not working on the issue of whether Saturday should be paid at a premium or not.

[sutty27]

It's not your opinion that's the problem, it's the spin and the fact that it's a controversial one. Perhaps it's unfair, but arguing a controversial opinion so strongly looks a lot like just attempting to annoy people, aka trolling.

Funny that you mention facts though, your posts appear to be a bit light on them from what I see.

 

I'm arguing my opinion, do you think people with minority opinions shouldn't argue their opinion? Its also my opinion that God does not exist which is also a minority opinion and is an opinion that you might even share, does that discount me from arguing with people that do think God exists, after all they are the majority so must be right.

 

Every point I have argued has been supported with evidence even to the point were I posted a link to the much better contract that has been offered to the doctors. I posted information that you disagreed with, you asked were I got the information from and I provided the link to that information, its appears to me that you are arguing your points despite not knowing all the facts.

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2016 at 10:19 ----------

 

You should be more clear, do you mean consultants then when you simply said "doctors"?

 

Doctors includes Junior Doctors and consultants.

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2016 at 10:09 ----------

 

 

It's not your opinion that's the problem, it's the spin and the fact that it's a controversial one. Perhaps it's unfair, but arguing a controversial opinion so strongly looks a lot like just attempting to annoy people, aka trolling.

Funny that you mention facts though, your posts appear to be a bit light on them from what I see.

 

---------- Post added 16-02-2016 at 10:12 ----------

 

 

That is not a summary of the contract, it's a letter stating that negotiations are not working on the issue of whether Saturday should be paid at a premium or not.

 

When you open the link it gives you the Final contract. It compares the Current contract, the November offer and the Final contract. You might think the final offer is worse than the current contract, I think it is better for patients and better for doctors that don't want to work 91 hours in a week.

Edited February 16, 2016 by sutty27

[999tigger]

 

When you open the link it gives you the Final contract. It compares the Current contract, the November offer and the Final contract. You might think the final offer is worse than the current contract, I think it is better for patients and better for doctors that don't want to work 91 hours in a week.

 

Clearly the Dr's disagree with you. They are intelligent enough to know how it impacts them and know whether they will lose out or not. It isnt just about pay, but about conditions and their overall contract. Theres a difference between someone working in A&E compared to someone doing research work.

[sutty27]

Clearly the Dr's disagree with you. They are intelligent enough to know how it impacts them and know whether they will lose out or not. It isnt just about pay, but about conditions and their overall contract. Theres a difference between someone working in A&E compared to someone doing research work.

 

I'm not one for following the crowd, I examine the information and facts and form my own judgement. A point to consider, its a very rare human that is good at everything, being a good doctor doesn't mean you would make a good accountant, lawyer, ect.