Seven day NHS, free?

[perplexed]

Jeremy Hunt is doing a splendid job of displaying his fundamental lack of knowledge of how the healthcare system actually works.

[willman]

Jeremy Hunt is doing a splendid job of displaying his fundamental lack of knowledge of how the healthcare system actually works.

 

As opposed to the general "man on the street" ?

 

Probably 90% of the MP's don't have a clue as they'll all be on private healthcare and probably haven't phoned for a Drs appointment for years.

 

Nurses, emergency staff already work 7 day weeks,or they did the last time i went to hospital,as do the cleaners & the catering staff. Now for the rest is it chicken and egg - who's most important.

Do we need full support staff with no Dr's on duty or Dr's on duty with support staff that can be rota'd to work weekends.?

 

What i find vexing is that Drs can choose to work weekends for extra pay in the current scenario,surely they'll be exhausted and working tired. Yet when a 7 day week is enforced being tired and exhausted is a contract breaker.

[JFKvsNixon]

As opposed to the general "man on the street" ?

 

Probably 90% of the MP's don't have a clue as they'll all be on private healthcare and probably haven't phoned for a Drs appointment for years.

 

Nurses, emergency staff already work 7 day weeks,or they did the last time i went to hospital,as do the cleaners & the catering staff. Now for the rest is it chicken and egg - who's most important.

Do we need full support staff with no Dr's on duty or Dr's on duty with support staff that can be rota'd to work weekends.?

 

What i find vexing is that Drs can choose to work weekends for extra pay in the current scenario,surely they'll be exhausted and working tired. Yet when a 7 day week is enforced being tired and exhausted is a contract breaker.

 

The junior doctors are already on a night and weekend rota. The issue about being tired and exhausted in the new contract is one of a mechanism being removed where the hospitals were automatically fined if their junior doctors worked over a set number of hours.

 

There are also changes in break entitlements so the junior doctors which would work out as having a 20 minute break if they work an 11 hour shift.

[willman]

The junior doctors are already on a night and weekend rota. The issue about being tired and exhausted in the new contract is one of a mechanism being removed where the hospitals were automatically fined if their junior doctors worked over a set number of hours.

 

There are also changes in break entitlements so the junior doctors which would work out as having a 20 minute break if they work an 11 hour shift.

 

So are they tired if the hospital is fined or not?

Basically the Dr's could be asked to exceed 56 hours whereas under the current scenario they aren't?

The 20 minute break rule has always been in force under the European Working directive.

20 minutes every 6 hours is the legal requirement which means 11 eleven hours max with only one break. I'm not saying its right and proper but its actually part of the BMA's EWTD "protection" points to make work better for Dr's.

Edited February 12, 2016 by willman

[JFKvsNixon]

So are they tired if the hospital is fined or not?

Basically the Dr's could be asked to exceed 56 hours whereas under the current scenario they aren't?

The 20 minute break rule has always been in force under the European Working directive.

20 minutes every 6 hours is the legal requirement which means 11 eleven hours max with only one break. I'm not saying its right and proper but its actually part of the BMA's EWTD "protection" points to make work better for Dr's.

 

The mechanism where the hospitals were automatically fined stopped them from rostering the doctors to work over set number of hours, in an effort to save money, because it ended up costing them more money.

 

So the system worked.

 

Now the doctors will be "asked", usually by the people who are in charge of their training, if they're happy to work extra hours. Can you not see the subtext here and how a safety mechanism which was in place has been removed.

 

Also it is a drop in conditions for the junior doctors. Currently they can have a break every 4 hours which I believe to be right considering the consequences that a tired mistake may bring when you're operating, anaesthetising or running a busy intensive care unit without direct supervision, which many junior doctors will be doing towards the end of their training.

[sutty27]

The junior doctors are already on a night and weekend rota. The issue about being tired and exhausted in the new contract is one of a mechanism being removed where the hospitals were automatically fined if their junior doctors worked over a set number of hours.

There are also changes in break entitlements so the junior doctors which would work out as having a 20 minute break if they work an 11 hour shift.

 

Which is an idiotic idea, why punish the patients for bad management, punish the manager.

The current system clearly doesn't work.

Junior doctors are still working 100-hour weeks despite European laws, the British Medical Association has warned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10818708/Junior-doctors-are-still-working-100-hour-weeks-despite-European-laws-BMA.html

Edited February 12, 2016 by sutty27

[JFKvsNixon]

Which is an idiotic idea, why punish the patients for bad management, punish the manager.

The current system clearly doesn't work.

Junior doctors are still working 100-hour weeks despite European laws, the British Medical Association has warned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10818708/Junior-doctors-are-still-working-100-hour-weeks-despite-European-laws-BMA.html

 

As I've said to you before, only a few minutes ago when you put forward exactly the same argument, you are being overly simplistic.

[Berberis]

Jeremy Hunt has said that the imposition of the junior doctors contract is linked to a 7 day NHS.

I would have thought a 7 day NHS would take much more. Junior doctors already work 7 days.

Can we have more NHS, without more money, or perhaps there is more money? What will make the NHS 7 days?

 

There are very few doctors working (on the wards) in hospitals at weekends and those who are, are junior doctors, not consultants.

 

When I was in the NGH over the summer and I talked to a doctor about the weekend cover. he told me there were only 5 doctors on duty in the whole hospital at that time (sat night).

[JFKvsNixon]

There are very few doctors working (on the wards) in hospitals at weekends and those who are, are junior doctors, not consultants.

 

When I was in the NGH over the summer and I talked to a doctor about the weekend cover. he told me there were only 5 doctors on duty in the whole hospital at that time (sat night).

 

We've been through this before, it's a load of rubbish. What about ITU doctors, Cardiac ITU doctors, doctors working for the trauma team, A&E doctors, doctors covering each area.

 

At the weekend they'll be more than a lot more than five doctors on duty. If they have a couple of theatres going, which isn't unusual on a Saturday, they'll have at least4 doctors in them to start off with.

[ANGELFIRE1]

The short answer is "not very" - but I doubt you'd entertain a longer, more detailed explanation why the premise behind your post is fundamentally mistaken, even if I could be bothered to post it and even if it was in any way related to the topic

 

 

So the op is about a seven day working NHS, to have a fully functioning seven day working week it has to cost more money, I cannot see any way around that. So the 55 million we give away every day to the failed EU would be quite handy I would imagine. How is this or my original post not related in any way to the topic.

 

Please explain.

 

Angel1.