Seven day NHS, free?

[JFKvsNixon]

So in a nutshell, it is all about pay then nothing to do with "patient safety"

 

No, there was a mechanism where the hospital was fined if their junior doctors worked too many hours. This will be removed in the new contract. Also their break allowance has been cut, so they could be forced to work 11 hours and only get a 20 minute break.

[Berberis]

So in a nutshell, it is all about pay then nothing to do with "patient safety"

 

My thoughts too. This is junior doctors complaining that they will be prevented from working extra shifts to boost their pay packets. Didn't they used to complain about long hours etc and say they were dangerous?

 

Personally speaking, I think that doctors should be prevented from working long hours in the much the same way Lorry drivers are. But they should also be paid more than £22,000pa for a first year junior doctor. They should at least double it.

[JFKvsNixon]

My thoughts too. This is junior doctors complaining that they will be prevented from working extra shifts to boost their pay packets. Didn't they used to complain about long hours etc and say they were dangerous?

 

Personally speaking, I think that doctors should be prevented from working long hours in the much the same way Lorry drivers are. But they should also be paid more than £22,000pa for a first year junior doctor. They should at least double it.

 

I think that you're mistaken that the junior doctors are complaining that they're going to be stopped from working longer hours.

 

I haven't seen any instances of this, but I have seen many junior doctors sharing their concern that the mechanism that automatically stopped them from working too many hours will be removed.

[sutty27]

So in a nutshell, it is all about pay then nothing to do with "patient safety"

 

I would say so, looking at the new contract I can only see that it will improve patient safety.

[Cyclone]

The longer working hours then, they won't leave junior doctors tired and less able to do their jobs effectively?

 

---------- Post added 15-02-2016 at 15:14 ----------

 

My thoughts too. This is junior doctors complaining that they will be prevented from working extra shifts to boost their pay packets.

 

No, they don't currently have the ability to choose "extra" shifts, or indeed any choice. They are given a rota.

[sutty27]

No, there was a mechanism where the hospital was fined if their junior doctors worked too many hours. This will be removed in the new contract. Also their break allowance has been cut, so they could be forced to work 11 hours and only get a 20 minute break.

 

I gave you the quote and the link which clearly states that you are incorrect. There will be a mechanism in place to fine hospitals if doctors work over the hours that the contract allows them to work, the money raised from any fines will be used to fund training.

 

---------- Post added 15-02-2016 at 15:16 ----------

 

My thoughts too. This is junior doctors complaining that they will be prevented from working extra shifts to boost their pay packets. Didn't they used to complain about long hours etc and say they were dangerous?

 

Personally speaking, I think that doctors should be prevented from working long hours in the much the same way Lorry drivers are. But they should also be paid more than £22,000pa for a first year junior doctor. They should at least double it.

 

They will be paid more than £22,000, they start at £27,000 but are expected to earn more if they work unsocial hours and over overtime.

[Cyclone]

There are so many foreign doctors because its a buyers market. The remuneration package offered to doctors is very appealing and so the NHS can cast it net far and wide

 

Can't you make up your mind?

 

But they should also be paid more than £22,000pa for a first year junior doctor.

[sutty27]

The longer working hours then, they won't leave junior doctors tired and less able to do their jobs effectively?

 

---------- Post added 15-02-2016 at 15:14 ----------

 

 

No, they don't currently have the ability to choose "extra" shifts, or indeed any choice. They are given a rota.

 

Yes long hours leave junior doctors tired and less able to do their jobs effectively, hence the reason for the new contract which reduces the hours they are allowed to work in any week, reduces the consecutive days they are allowed to work and reduces the average house they are allowed to work.

[Cyclone]

Where are you getting your details for what is being proposed?

[JFKvsNixon]

I gave you the quote and the link which clearly states that you are incorrect. There will be a mechanism in place to fine hospitals if doctors work over the hours that the contract allows them to work, the money raised from any fines will be used to fund training

 

The link said nothing about a mechanism where the hospitals were fined automatically, making it cheaper to higher locums instead of overworking their junior doctors.

 

Here's what the BMA said about the guardian role:

 

We do not feel that the safety provisions summarised in the 4 January o er document are comprehensive. The guardian role, which was the subject of constructive discussions has been diluted. It now appears to lack teeth and would not command the confidence of junior doctors in the form described. Progress has been made, but there remain serious and worrying omissions which mean that the BMA still has concerns about patient and doctor safety.

 

---------- Post added 15-02-2016 at 15:30 ----------

 

They will be paid more than £22,000, they start at £27,000 but are expected to earn more if they work unsocial hours and over overtime.

 

Ok, if you believe that junior doctors will be better paid under the new contract, how does it free up funds to implement the 7 day service as you indicated earlier?