No pension till mid 70-s

[sgtkate]

Folk who live longer carry on eating, drinking, buying cars and clothes etc.

 

Fair point. But surely you can't be arguing there's a 1:1 ratio between people working after 65 and extra jobs required to serve those same people? If that was the case we'd have zero unemployment permanently.

[Cyclone]

What possible link can there be between people living longer and number of jobs?

 

Of course they might increase but that's not linked to life expectancy...

 

You could make the same argument about the population, yet as population has increased consistently over the last 2 centuries, there have always been jobs for people...

[unbeliever]

Fair point. But surely you can't be arguing there's a 1:1 ratio between people working after 65 and extra jobs required to serve those same people? If that was the case we'd have zero unemployment permanently.

 

Probably not exactly 1:1. Could in fact be more.

 

We routinely have more vacancies in the economy that we have unemployed.

Problem is that the skills and location of the unemployed do not match the vacancies.

[sgtkate]

Probably not exactly 1:1. Could in fact be more.

 

We routinely have more vacancies in the economy that we have unemployed.

Problem is that the skills and location of the unemployed do not match the vacancies.

 

Ok, I'll take your opinion as valid. Just thinking about it didn't seem logical at all, but it could well be. It's sited often as an argument against people working longer. I don't have a specific issue with the retirement age being increased as long as it's fair and makes sense. Some split between office jobs and manual ones would be fair, as would linking it to years working so people who go to uni for example would work until they are older than someone who starts as an apprentice at 16. Trying to think if that's 'fair' though...then link the number of years you have to work to a combination of life expectancy and quality of life expectancy as they aren't the same thing. As tinfoilhat pointed out, mental health issues such as dementia are increasingly common in the over 80s, so whilst our life expectancy might well be over 85, that doesn't mean people are fit to work until then.

[ANGELFIRE1]

Slightly off post but as a retired HGV driver I could not even imagine driving down the motorway in my mid 70's with 40 ton behind me, even the thought of it gives me the shivers.

 

I wonder what the hair brained politicians will think up next, they have to realise some occupations need fit men/women not clapped out 75 year olds.

 

Angel1.

[unbeliever]

Ok, I'll take your opinion as valid. Just thinking about it didn't seem logical at all, but it could well be. It's sited often as an argument against people working longer. I don't have a specific issue with the retirement age being increased as long as it's fair and makes sense. Some split between office jobs and manual ones would be fair, as would linking it to years working so people who go to uni for example would work until they are older than someone who starts as an apprentice at 16. Trying to think if that's 'fair' though...then link the number of years you have to work to a combination of life expectancy and quality of life expectancy as they aren't the same thing. As tinfoilhat pointed out, mental health issues such as dementia are increasingly common in the over 80s, so whilst our life expectancy might well be over 85, that doesn't mean people are fit to work until then.

 

The physicality of the typical job decreases as technology advances.

I would certainly concede that there are plenty of jobs where early retirement would be appropriate.

Who should fund said early retirement? I think probably the employer and/or the employee who chooses to follow that career path.

I would also be content to have the state subsidise early retirement for those to whom the years are less kind.

 

Slightly off post but as a retired HGV driver I could not even imagine driving down the motorway in my mid 70's with 40 ton behind me, even the thought of it gives me the shivers.

 

I wonder what the hair brained politicians will think up next, they have to realise some occupations need fit men/women not clapped out 75 year olds.

 

Angel1.

 

This is not a bad example. Although you will no doubt be aware that the physical demands of HGV driving were reduced substantially when power steering became standard really not all that long ago.

As I say, technological advancement removes some physical labour as it creates other jobs, and reduces the physical labour involved in jobs which continue.

Edited March 3, 2016 by unbeliever

[Olive]

Slightly off post but as a retired HGV driver I could not even imagine driving down the motorway in my mid 70's with 40 ton behind me, even the thought of it gives me the shivers.

 

I wonder what the hair brained politicians will think up next, they have to realise some occupations need fit men/women not clapped out 75 year olds.

 

Angel1.

 

My dad was an HGV driver for 50 years but he had to hand in his licence after he had a couple of transient ischemic attacks in his early 70s. He's fairly fit and well, and he'd still be driving if he could. Now he does a few little non-HVG jobs for people.

 

What people are not taking into account is, that although life expectancy has risen, and continues to rise, we're still wearing out at about the same rate, physically and mentally.

[unbeliever]

My dad was an HGV driver for 50 years but he had to hand in his licence after he had a couple of transient ischemic attacks in his early 70s. He's fairly fit and well, and he'd still be driving if he could. Now he does a few little non-HVG jobs for people.

 

What people are not taking into account is, that although life expectancy has risen, and continues to rise, we're still wearing out at about the same rate, physically and mentally.

 

We're not wearing out at the same rate.

But there is I will concede a longer period of dotage at the end.

[ANGELFIRE1]

unbeliever

""This is not a bad example. Although you will no doubt be aware that the physical demands of HGV driving were reduced substantially when power steering became standard really not all that long ago.

As I say, technological advancement removes some physical labour as it creates other jobs, and reduces the physical labour involved in jobs which continue.""

 

 

It's not the physical side of driving a HGV, most are like driving a car with the lightness of the controls. But you have the roping and sheeting for instance, that would be very difficult for a guy in the mid 70's, a wet sheet might weigh around one hundredweight. At 66 I can fall asleep at the drop of a hat, I can't imagine some one at 75 not been the same. Concentration and awareness are a big part of driving a large truck, both wane as we get older.

 

Angel1.

Edited March 3, 2016 by ANGELFIRE1

[unbeliever]

This is not a bad example. Although you will no doubt be aware that the physical demands of HGV driving were reduced substantially when power steering became standard really not all that long ago.

As I say, technological advancement removes some physical labour as it creates other jobs, and reduces the physical labour involved in jobs which continue.

 

 

It's not the physical side of driving a HGV, most are like driving a car with the lightness of the controls. But you have the roping and sheeting for instance, that would be very difficult for a guy in the mid 70's, a wet sheet might weigh around one hundredweight. At 66 I can fall asleep at the drop of a hat, I can't imagine some one at 75 not been the same. Concentration and awareness are a big part of driving a large truck, both wane as we get older.

 

Angel1.

 

That's all very valid.

Still the kind of labour you describe is gradually disappearing as technology advances.

The technology to take the effort out of roping and sheeting already exists and will become economical before too long.

The self driving car has also been invented and the HGV can't be all that far behind.

 

For 200 years now we have been told that industrialisation, then computerisation; would leave us all unemployed. It hasn't happened yet and I don't see why it would happen now.

In general: people work fewer hours, at less physically demanding jobs, for more reward. This is surely a good thing.