Free movement of people

[sutty27]

I think that the West opened Pandora's box with it's many ineffective and stupid interventions in the Muslim world. But it doesn't mean the people of the West will accept the lose of peace and prosperity that comes with these migrants. Self-flagellation for the sins of our governments and our past may appeal to the politically correct masochists amongst us but not to most people!

 

The Arab spring would have very likely still happened even if we hadn't had wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Solomon1]

The Arab spring would have very likely still happened even if we hadn't had wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

Why?...........

[sutty27]

Why?...........

For one it started in Tunisia and was completely unrelated to the Iraq Afghanistan wars.

 

And the downfall of Tunisia's President inspired pro-democracy activists across the Arab world.

 

Widespread discontent at economic hardship, decades of autocratic rule and corruption erupted into mass demonstrations in December 2010 after a young, unemployed man, Mohamed Bouazizi, set fire to himself after officials stopped him selling vegetables in Sidi Bouzid. Around 300 people were killed during the subsequent unrest, which forced Ben Ali to resign in January 2011, after 23 years in power, and go into exile in Saudi Arabia. He was later sentenced to life in prison in absentia.

Edited March 11, 2016 by sutty27

[L00b]

For one it started in Tunisia and was completely unrelated to the Iraq Afghanistan wars.

It was related to Iraq: many of the Tunisian people behind the Arab Spring have publicly acknowledged that it was the televising of Saddam's toppling which lit the touch paper for them.

 

Part and parcel of The Law of Unintended Consequences (a.k.a Murphy's Law), though most world leaders with a couple of brain cells saw all this coming (Chirac never wanted in to Iraq 2.0, remember the "freedom fries"?)

 

Bush and Blair have way more than Iraq and Afghan to answer for.

Edited March 11, 2016 by L00b

[sutty27]

It was related to Iraq: many of the Tunisian people behind the Arab Spring have publicly acknowledged that it was the televising of Saddam's toppling which lit the touch paper for them.

 

Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled in April 2003.

 

Then 7 years later this happened.

 

 

Widespread discontent at economic hardship, decades of autocratic rule and corruption erupted into mass demonstrations in December 2010 after a young, unemployed man, Mohamed Bouazizi, set fire to himself after officials stopped him selling vegetables in Sidi Bouzid. Around 300 people were killed during the subsequent unrest, which forced Ben Ali to resign in January 2011, after 23 years in power, and go into exile in Saudi Arabia. He was later sentenced to life in prison in absentia.

 

 

 

Its a bit of a stretch to link the two events.

[Solomon1]

For one it started in Tunisia and was completely unrelated to the Iraq Afghanistan wars.

 

And the downfall of Tunisia's President inspired pro-democracy activists across the Arab world.

 

Widespread discontent at economic hardship, decades of autocratic rule and corruption erupted into mass demonstrations in December 2010 after a young, unemployed man, Mohamed Bouazizi, set fire to himself after officials stopped him selling vegetables in Sidi Bouzid. Around 300 people were killed during the subsequent unrest, which forced Ben Ali to resign in January 2011, after 23 years in power, and go into exile in Saudi Arabia. He was later sentenced to life in prison in absentia.

 

Thanks for that

[L00b]

Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled in April 2003.

 

Then 7 years later this happened.

 

Its a bit of a stretch to link the two events.

You're entitled to your opinion. I just go by interviews of the actual Tunisian organisers and protagonists published in respected newspapers (Washington Post, Le Monde).

 

How long do you think a European Spring would take to organise and erupt, taking Summer 2015 as year zero?

 

6 months? Ooops, well past that already, coming up to 12 soon.

 

Less time than under an autocratic regime with a brutal repressive regime like that of Ben Ali at the time?

 

More time?

 

Answers on a postcard.

[sutty27]

You're entitled to your opinion. I just go by interviews of the actual Tunisian organisers and protagonists published in respected newspapers (Washington Post, Le Monde).

 

 

Its illogical to link the two events, although at the time of the Arab Spring I am sure that the USA would have loved them to be linked. I wouldn't even put it past them to have organised these interviews you speak of.

 

Look at the facts.

 

Saddam was removed from power but by a foreign army, not Iraqis, so why would the Tunisians think they could achieve the same without our help?

 

The country was consumed by an insurgency and civil war that continues to this day, why would Tunisians want that for their country.

 

The country’s leader, Nouri al-Maliki, is authoritarian, and presides over a nation divided along sectarian lines. So getting rid of their leader didn't solve the populations problems.

 

 

As Paul Pillar, a former C.I.A. officer and a Middle East expert has observed, “Rather than being inspired by what happened in Iraq after the invasion, Middle Easterners were repelled by it. If the violence, disorder, and breakdown of public services in Iraq were the birth pangs of a new Middle Eastern order, most people in the region wanted nothing of it.” If Iraq offered an example, in other words, it was as a model you don’t want to emulate.

 

Are the people of Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Syria, Algeria Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, Sudan, Mauritania, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Djibouti, Western Sahara, that stupid that they would want to turn their countries into something resembling Iraq.

[mafya]

Its illogical to link the two events, although at the time of the Arab Spring I am sure that the USA would have loved them to be linked. I wouldn't even put it past them to have organised these interviews you speak of.

 

Look at the facts.

 

Saddam was removed from power but by a foreign army, not Iraqis, so why would the Tunisians think they could achieve the same without our help?

 

The country was consumed by an insurgency and civil war that continues to this day, why would Tunisians want that for their country.

 

The country’s leader, Nouri al-Maliki, is authoritarian, and presides over a nation divided along sectarian lines. So getting rid of their leader didn't solve the populations problems.

 

 

As Paul Pillar, a former C.I.A. officer and a Middle East expert has observed, “Rather than being inspired by what happened in Iraq after the invasion, Middle Easterners were repelled by it. If the violence, disorder, and breakdown of public services in Iraq were the birth pangs of a new Middle Eastern order, most people in the region wanted nothing of it.” If Iraq offered an example, in other words, it was as a model you don’t want to emulate.

 

Are the people of Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Syria, Algeria Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, Sudan, Mauritania, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Djibouti, Western Sahara, that stupid that they would want to turn their countries into something resembling Iraq.

 

US agents planted the seeds of discontent in these country's, the Arab Spring phenomenon was engineered by the US= http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-us-engineered-arab-spring-the-ngo-raids-in-egypt/28433

[foxy lady]

US agents planted the seeds of discontent in these country's, the Arab Spring phenomenon was engineered by the US= http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-us-engineered-arab-spring-the-ngo-raids-in-egypt/28433

 

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