Does your religion make you a better person?

[hyper]

So what, you're still promoting an organisation that covered up worldwide child abuse as some sort of moral guide for your children.

So I guess if your kids showed promise at sport you would turn them away from it, because most sports governing bodies at the top turned a blind eye to either corruption or drug abuse.

 

The point is, the essential "story" on which a religion hangs, or the performance of a school can't be judged by corruption at the top.

 

In the same way, whether you support England or go to a match at Wembley won't be decided by whether Sepp did or didn't take bungs

[tinfoilhat]

I don't know to be honest.

 

If it's just a school full of Catholics (although most now have a sprinkling of other faiths in there I think) that's probably no worse than a school full of Muslims (and the various atrocities you can attach to their faith) is it? Or Hindus? Or any other faith?

 

The key points of most religions are be nice to people and don't kill or steal. That's a decent starting point but one that's hardly exclusive. But the two Catholic schools I have experience of do far better than wishy washy c of e/bog standard council ones in the same locale.

[vwkittie]

Define 'good', define 'better'?

 

What makes a person good or better is totally subjective. And did she mean better than other people, better than herself in the past, or better than herself without religion?

 

Generally speaking people are good, bad and everything in between. I doubt religious beliefs or lack thereof has any correlation whatsoever.

 

What I do know is striving to be 'better' purely because you believe you'll go to hell otherwise, or a man in the sky told you to, doesn't make you a good person. Humans already come fully equipped to be 'good' through our emotions, morals and empathy, without any need for religion.

[SnailyBoy]

So I guess if your kids showed promise at sport you would turn them away from it, because most sports governing bodies at the top turned a blind eye to either corruption or drug abuse.

 

The point is, the essential "story" on which a religion hangs, or the performance of a school can't be judged by corruption at the top.

 

In the same way, whether you support England or go to a match at Wembley won't be decided by whether Sepp did or didn't take bungs

 

It isn't about the performance of the school. The original claim was that the school, in particular a Catholic school would be able to provide guidance to create 'good' people based on their brand of Christianty.

[sgtkate]

If it's just a school full of Catholics (although most now have a sprinkling of other faiths in there I think) that's probably no worse than a school full of Muslims (and the various atrocities you can attach to their faith) is it? Or Hindus? Or any other faith?

 

The key points of most religions are be nice to people and don't kill or steal. That's a decent starting point but one that's hardly exclusive. But the two Catholic schools I have experience of do far better than wishy washy c of e/bog standard council ones in the same locale.

 

I'm not saying the school will suffer higher levels of child abuse than any other school, of course not. I'm saying that to try to argue that religion makes you a better person so you are sending your kids to a school that's associated with an organisation with one of the worst cases of covering up widespread child abuse and rape then that's a bizarre argument.

[GhostRiders]

Interesting chat in the pub last night where our religious friend insisted that religion makes you a better person. I disagree that it makes somebody a better person in any possible way. That said, she did get a round in.

 

I had a friend who converted to religion (which one is irrelevant) a few years ago.

 

Before that he was in prison, using women, getting drunk and starting fights and in general being a bit of a cad.

 

Since following religion he is now a focussed, self employed man with a lovely family (he married into his religion) and who spends most of his time doing good things for other people inspired by his religion.

 

I'm an atheist but I can honestly say, for this individual at least, religion has definitely helped him overcome the negative way he lived his life.

 

No idea if it works for everyone (and I've no intention of pretending to believe in a God that I don't accept exists) but categorically for my friend of almost thirty years it has worked for him, without a doubt.

[tinfoilhat]

I'm not saying the school will suffer higher levels of child abuse than any other school, of course not. I'm saying that to try to argue that religion makes you a better person so you are sending your kids to a school that's associated with an organisation with one of the worst cases of covering up widespread child abuse and rape then that's a bizarre argument.

 

Im agreeing with you that religion doesn't make you a better person. As lad the vicar (I don't know what demonination) a few streets down was a mean old sod compared to my less/none religious neighbours. But if you don't want to send your kids to a school that's associated with organisations that have a shady past (and arguably present), no parents would send their black kids to any state American school ever. But things have moved on there (a bit anyway - at least they arent deliberately infecting black people with diseases anymore). Things have, probably moved on a tiny bit with catholic church (and we still don't know how much influence that organisation has with catholic schools yet).

 

At the moment, education is like football - its a results driven business, rightly or wrongly. Catholic schools in my neck of the woods do very well. For most parents, that's enough.

[Eric Arthur]

I had a friend who converted to religion (which one is irrelevant) a few years ago.

 

Before that he was in prison, using women, getting drunk and starting fights and in general being a bit of a cad.

 

Since following religion he is now a focussed, self employed man with a lovely family (he married into his religion) and who spends most of his time doing good things for other people inspired by his religion.

 

I'm an atheist but I can honestly say, for this individual at least, religion has definitely helped him overcome the negative way he lived his life.

 

No idea if it works for everyone (and I've no intention of pretending to believe in a God that I don't accept exists) but categorically for my friend of almost thirty years it has worked for him, without a doubt.

 

Nice to hear something where religion made a person better, although getting an allotment, becoming a father, even getting an allotment or a cat might have had the same effect on him. It's good to hear your friend found out what worked for him.

 

We're still looking for something that shows that religion makes you a better person.

[Dozer]

Pick your philosophy...

 

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”

― Steven Weinberg

 

"If a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”. -- Jeffrey Dahmer, serial murderer

 

I'm not sure myself -- except in my day-to-day life I see a lot more good people than bad, both religious and not.

[Berberis]

Pick your philosophy...

 

“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”

― Steven Weinberg

 

Isnt this an oxymoron? Wouldn't you cease to be a good person as soon as you do an evil act. You can't be both good and evil. That's like being a Socialist Tory or a well-dressed Scouser.