Iain Duncan Smith resigns from Cabinet

[Bob Arctor]

Maureen who has mild back pain and claims she needs mobility assistance and a carer to make her meals. Derek who is morbidly obese and claims he can never work and needs a carer to do all his chores for him.

 

Those are the type of people who deserve the cuts. Those are the type of people that these current reforms are targeting. People who could work but choose not to. People who claims things that they neither need, use or should be entitled to.

 

Don't start muddying the issues.

 

 

Absolute dishonest rubbish. The 'reforms' target people who are assessed by the DWP as needing help to use the toilet and get dressed by reducing the number of qualifying points they would get for needing help with these tasks. NOT people who claim to need help with these, people whom the DWP have accepted need help with them.

 

Also, you numbskull, PIP is awarded to people who work as well as those who can't. Therefore your accusation about 'people who can work but choose not to' is completely dishonest and representative of the attitude of you Tories towards disabled people that has people so disgusted by you. Tory lies to cover up a disgusting re-distribution of money from disabled people to higher earners.

[I1L2T3]

what absolute TOSH.....someone who is worth several millions claims money from the system for his sick child, the man has no shame :gag::gag:

 

Like EccoNoob I don't have a problem with it.

 

If somebody is disabled or somebody has a disabled person in their family they should have access to specialised state support, and the care they need.

 

I'm happy to pay for that specialised care all day long for whoever needs it, rich or poor. Especially so for kids.

[ECCOnoob]

I see the issue but this is the whole thing.

 

That benefit should be for the carer, service provider, equipment, aid or whatever. If those people are using it as some sort of additional general income then that needs to be ceased immediately.

 

The benefit is not for their living costs. Its supposed to be a specific payment for a specific need.

 

In my ideal world there should be no "money" to speak of. If a service user needed a carer or cleaner or special equipment they would be provided with that without any "money" or "benefit" being paid out first. It should just be provided directly from the supplier and paid directly from the government.

 

IMO that should apply to everything else too. Housing, mediation, social services. It should be centrally funded and provided directly.

 

Alas that does not happen and now we have this mess we are in. SOME people cheating the system, exaggerating and getting things they don't need but are quite happy to keep receiving.

[I1L2T3]

I see the issue but this is the whole thing.

 

That benefit should be for the carer, service provider, equipment, aid or whatever. If those people are using it as some sort of additional general income then that needs to be ceased immediately.

 

The benefit is not for their living costs. Its supposed to be a specific payment for a specific need.

 

In my ideal world there should be no "money" to speak of. If a service user needed a carer or cleaner or special equipment they would be provided with that without any "money" or "benefit" being paid out first. It should just be provided directly from the supplier and paid directly from the government.

 

IMO that should apply to everything else too. Housing, mediation, social services. It should be centrally funded and provided directly.

 

Alas that does not happen and now we have this mess we are in. SOME people cheating the system, exaggerating and getting things they don't need but are quite happy to keep receiving.

 

Of course, but because of the dodgy implementation it hasn't worked out like that. The plans were potentially going to plunge up to 96% of PIP claimants into financial difficulty.

 

Sometimes you've got to be pragmatic not dogmatic.

 

Unfortunately it looks like any welfare payment that is going to groups that are not core Tory voters is fair game. This is a very revealing quote from the IDS interview today:

"It looks like we see benefits as a pot of money to cut because they don’t vote for us."

 

It doesn't just look like it. That is exactly what they have been doing!!

[Bob Arctor]

 

The benefit is not for their living costs. Its supposed to be a specific payment for a specific need.

 

 

From the gov.uk site:

Personal Independence Payment (PIP) helps with some of the extra costs caused by long-term ill-health or a disability if you’re aged 16 to 64.

 

Nowhere does the DWP stipulate what precisely the payment should be used for, they leave it to the recipient to decide the best way to use it to meet the additional costs arising from their condition. Every post you make on this shows that you know nothing about PIP yet you continue lecturing people about it and saying it should be cut. Which is the essence of the Tory attitude to disability and benefits in general.

[Anna B]

David Cameron's son had severe cerebral palsy and epilepsy.

 

Its a severe and life long condition.

 

Of course he bloody got money for him. ITS A PERMANENT DISABILITY.

 

Do you know who doesn't deserve money. Maureen who has mild back pain and claims she needs mobility assistance and a carer to make her meals. Derek who is morbidly obese and claims he can never work and needs a carer to do all his chores for him.

 

Those are the type of people who deserve the cuts. Those are the type of people that these current reforms are targeting. People who could work but choose not to. People who claims things that they neither need, use or should be entitled to.

 

Don't start muddying the issues.

 

Cameron pays tax like the rest of the working population. He is perfectly entitled to use the NHS and claim benefits for someone WHOSE CONDITION WARRANTS IT.

 

Not everyone does. Some people deserve to have their money cut.

 

Remember the statement from the Department:

 

"a significant number of people are likely to be getting the benefit despite having minimal to no ongoing daily living extra costs".

 

:: The DWP said it reviewed a "number of cases" and in 96% of them the "likely ongoing extra costs of daily living were nil, low or minimal". The department's argument is that many of the aids and appliances which people are currently getting points for are provided free by the NHS and councils, may already be in people's homes or could be bought cheaply

 

Taxpayers giving money to Claimants for aids which the taxpayers have already paid out for through the NHS.

 

You don't think that warrants some investigations, assessment and cuts where necessary??

 

Attack on the disabled my backside.

 

What about those with no 'visable' illness like mental illness? Serious question.

 

What about people with Serious Depression, autism or agoraphobia or Aspergers for example, people who are supposed to be getting help via 'care in the community' or Mental Health, but which simply doesn't exist? These are ollnesses which can be very difficult to identify and quantify, and need specialist assessment, not a quick tickbox ATOS exercise. As the necessary help bearly exists, I doubt money will be spent on specialist assessors.

 

These ill people might once have been given support via day groups, counselling or places like Remploy, but these no longer exist. Instead they are being unsympathetically harrassed which puts even more unbearable pressure in them which is enough to tip them over the edge.

 

What do you think the answer is?

[I1L2T3]

From the gov.uk site:

 

Nowhere does the DWP stipulate what precisely the payment should be used for, they leave it to the recipient to decide the best way to use it to meet the additional costs arising from their condition. Every post you make on this shows that you know nothing about PIP yet you continue lecturing people about it and saying it should be cut. Which is the essence of the Tory attitude to disability and benefits in general.

 

To be fair there is probably a proportion of claimants who don't need the ongoing support, but that said probably a lot more who do.

 

It looks like the changes to the PIP assessment rules were a major shift of the goalposts. The bench marking of 96% people potentially not needing PIP are a dead giveaway and smacks of a plan to almost completely abolish the benefit.

 

More details will become clear in the next few days as the fine print of the budget is picked over. I think this is going to get worse for the Tories.

[*_ash_*]

David Cameron's son had severe cerebral palsy and epilepsy.

 

Its a severe and life long condition.

 

Of course he bloody got money for him. ITS A PERMANENT DISABILITY.

 

Do you know who doesn't deserve money. Maureen who has mild back pain and claims she needs mobility assistance and a carer to make her meals. Derek who is morbidly obese and claims he can never work and needs a carer to do all his chores for him.

 

Those are the type of people who deserve the cuts. Those are the type of people that these current reforms are targeting. People who could work but choose not to. People who claims things that they neither need, use or should be entitled to.

 

Don't start muddying the issues.

 

Cameron pays tax like the rest of the working population. He is perfectly entitled to use the NHS and claim benefits for someone WHOSE CONDITION WARRANTS IT.

 

Not everyone does. Some people deserve to have their money cut.

 

Remember the statement from the Department:

 

"a significant number of people are likely to be getting the benefit despite having minimal to no ongoing daily living extra costs".

 

:: The DWP said it reviewed a "number of cases" and in 96% of them the "likely ongoing extra costs of daily living were nil, low or minimal". The department's argument is that many of the aids and appliances which people are currently getting points for are provided free by the NHS and councils, may already be in people's homes or could be bought cheaply

 

Taxpayers giving money to Claimants for aids which the taxpayers have already paid out for through the NHS.

 

You don't think that warrants some investigations, assessment and cuts where necessary??

 

Attack on the disabled my backside.

 

Spot on. The anti-Tory brigade just keep at it on here in last few days. Riots next!

 

Every plan always has losers, I certainly lost a lot of my wages under Labour and saw absolutely no benefits from it. However, it's important that exceptional cases are looked into and allowed to bypass large scale plans.

 

what absolute TOSH.....someone who is worth several millions claims money from the system for his sick child, the man has no shame :gag::gag:

 

Shown your true colours here banjo

 

Tory lies to cover up a disgusting re-distribution of money from disabled people to higher earners.

 

You sound like Diane Abbott

[I1L2T3]

What about those with no 'visable' illness like mental illness? Serious question.

 

What about people with Serious Depression, autism or agoraphobia or Aspergers for example, people who are supposed to be getting help via 'care in the community' or Mental Health, but which simply doesn't exist? These are ollnesses which can be very difficult to identify and quantify, and need specialist assessment, not a quick tickbox ATOS exercise. As the necessary help bearly exists, I doubt money will be spent on specialist assessors.

 

These ill people might once have been given support via day groups, counselling or places like Remploy, but these no longer exist. Instead they are being unsympathetically harrassed which puts even more unbearable pressure in them which is enough to tip them over the edge.

 

What do you think the answer is?

 

Very true Anna. Some people will have good days and bad days. Their illness is not always stable. Different needs on different days.

 

It's fair to say that for many their illness won't have been helped by 6 years of continuous harassment by welfare agencies either. Already broken people leading fractured lives treated like guinea pigs in welfare experiments, all in the name of deficit reduction, and because Tories see them as fair game. Disgusting really.

[ricgem2002]

Spot on. The anti-Tory brigade just keep at it on here in last few days. Riots next!

 

Every plan always has losers, I certainly lost a lot of my wages under Labour and saw absolutely no benefits from it. However, it's important that exceptional cases are looked into and allowed to bypass large scale plans.

 

come on then ash explain how labour lost you your wages ?