Safer from terror attacks by leaving the EU?

[Halibut]

I was just listening to Dr Chrisopher Phillips speaking on Radio 4. He states that if Britain leaves the EU it will become safer from terrorists.

 

I understand others in parliament have voiced similar things.

 

He's clearly wrong.

[RabM]

As usual both sides are exploiting anything to push their own agenda. I keep saying, the Luftwaffe took their best shot for years and they were professionals. The IRA managed a lot more attacks and we didn't change our lives beyond the loss of public bins for a few years.

[I1L2T3]

As usual both sides are exploiting anything to push their own agenda. I keep saying, the Luftwaffe took their best shot for years and they were professionals. The IRA managed a lot more attacks and we didn't change our lives beyond the loss of public bins for a few years.

 

Exactly. I remember the 80s well and that thought that used to flash across your mind before going out, or to a big shopping centre. That thought about whether the IRA are going to mess things up. You had the thought for a second, dismissed it, and just went out and got on with it. What else could you realistically and practically do?

 

The Brexiteers wan't you to be scared every day of the Muslim bogeyman. To live in fear, which coincidentally is exactly what the tiny number of extremist Muslims want you to do too. Sorry ladies but I'm not going to live like that. There is no reason for me to. Crossing the road poses more danger.

[sutty27]

The border would be in the UK. Not in France.

 

The people who want to stay in the EU don't have to prove anything. You have to tell us how it will be different and you are totally failing to produce any compelling arguments.

 

We already have strong borders. Only you are too blinkered to see it and can't guarantee that we wouldn't weaken them.

 

No I don't you have to tell us why we would be less safe if we leave since it is the claim made by the leave campaigners, and you and everyone else that wants to stay in have totally failed to do so.

 

Yes we have strong borders but leaving would make them stronger.

 

---------- Post added 25-03-2016 at 11:06 ----------

 

Are you sure. If anything, without the cooperation of our European partners, it would be easier for people to get onto ferries to the UK. Then yeah we could have a secure border but the border would be on UK soil at the port. Where you going to put the thousands of people who could turn up every week? We can't impose our border on foreign sovereign territory without the explicit co-operation of the places where we want to impose the border.

 

There would be every incentive for the countries where the main ports are for ferries to the UK just to let the migrants/refugees get on the ferries. Or you could ask ferry companies to bear the strain of dealing with it all.

 

We could simply send them back to the country they just arrived from, in most cases that would be France.

[JFKvsNixon]

We could simply send them back to the country they just arrived from, in most cases that would be France.

 

And what if France refused to accept them?

[melthebell]

And what if France refused to accept them?

shush he wont have thought it through that deeply lol

[andyofborg]

No I don't you have to tell us why we would be less safe if we leave since it is the claim made by the leave campaigners, and you and everyone else that wants to stay in have totally failed to do so.

 

Yes we have strong borders but leaving would make them stronger.

 

 

equally, you haven't really explained how leaving would make them stronger.

 

how do you tell if someone who turns up at your border is a terrorist or not?

 

unless they are intent on attacking your border post then its not likely they will have guns and explosives in their belongings or answer the question, "are you a terrorist?" honestly. you are left with intellegence and that require cooperation with other foreign agencies.

 

clearly, there is much more which can and needs to be done to improve that sort of cooperation but walking away from the strucures which can deliver it across 28 nations seems very counter productive.

 

---------- Post added 25-03-2016 at 11:18 ----------

 

And what if France refused to accept them?

 

what if they didn't come from france?

 

i'm not sure why he feels it's likely they would come from france

Edited March 25, 2016 by andyofborg

[I1L2T3]

No I don't you have to tell us why we would be less safe if we leave since it is the claim made by the leave campaigners, and you and everyone else that wants to stay in have totally failed to do so.

 

Yes we have strong borders but leaving would make them stronger.

 

1. If we leave the EU and want participation in the single market then a condition of participation could be free-er movement of people. Switzerland, Iceland and Norway are required to be part of the Schengen zone as a condition of their participation. There are no guarantees a similar condition would not be forced on us.

 

2. Various treaties and agreements exist which allow us to operate our border on foreign soil in EU countries. There is no guarantee those agreements would remain in force if we left the EU. Simple question do you want the border to be in Calais or Dover?

 

3. We already have strong borders. We have the Schengen opt-out, and we have an opt-out on EU-wide asylum policy. We now have the capability as part of a two speed EU to negotiate specific new opt-outs to our advantage, e.g. maybe something like specific entry requirements on anybody admitted to the EU from Syria/Iraq from 2014 onwards which is kind of what we did with Bulgarian/Romanian migrants. We risk losing that if we leave the EU (see point 1)

 

4. Making our own trade deals, especially with more powerful partners exposes us to conditions around movement of people from those partners that the EU would never permit. Do you want an extra 200,000 Chinese/Indian students every year? Think about it.

 

5. Brexiteers have made a lot of noise about re-establishing trade with the commonwealth. Any deals will inevitably involve conditions about movement of people. 2 billion people and 500 million Muslims. Ready for it?

 

If even just two of these things come true then you have a bigger problem than now. You can't guarantee they won't come true because you have no idea what will happen. If we stay in the EU none of these things will come true.

 

Enough for you?

 

---------- Post added 25-03-2016 at 11:23 ----------

 

We could simply send them back to the country they just arrived from, in most cases that would be France.

 

And they could simply get back on the ferry, as a foot passenger for about £15. Or maybe the French would pay their fare.

 

That's academic anyway. All they have to do when they get here is say they are claiming asylum then they are our problem. And they'd be on our soil.

 

You really don't have a clue what you are arguing for. It's sad really.

[andyofborg]

5. Brexiteers have made a lot of noise about re-establishing trade with the commonwealth. Any deals will inevitably involve conditions about movement of people. 2 billion people and 500 million Muslims. Ready for it?

 

I think many brexiteers have something of a nostalgic view of the Commonwealth like it was in the 50s when it was a sort of empire-lite who we could economically dominate.

 

The Commonwealth countries have moved on. The bigger economies like India are now a major competitors, you only have to look at the activities of Tata and the call centre operations who seem to be staffed by women called Steve and the less visible to the general pubic, IT and other outsourcing operations. The smaller economies wont produce any significant trade with us apart from probably providing a pool of cheap labour to either import people from or export jobs too.

 

Anyway, i doubt that the Commonwealth will survive long in any meaningful form following the death of the Queen.

Edited March 25, 2016 by andyofborg

[sutty27]

And what if France refused to accept them?

 

So you think France could refuse to accept them from us, but we must accept them from France, odd that isn't it.

 

If they arrive here from France and if we don't want them, they are on the next boat back to France, France wouldn't have a say in the matter.

 

---------- Post added 25-03-2016 at 11:45 ----------

 

shush he wont have thought it through that deeply lol

Yes I have thought that through it is the EU supporters that haven't thought it through.