unbeliever Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I stated that "tend to be Tory leaning right wingers" have certain views, not sure why you wanted to hype your post about all socialists? I assume from that, that you do not agree, or maybe you do. Yes okay. I didn't mean to put the "all" in the first sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Peoples' opinions become part of their identity. The libertarian who thinks government is the source of all woe. The socialist who thinks government makes everything better. The believer who thinks their god has the perfect solutions. The atheist who thinks gods are the source of all evil. It's kind of like the Concorde fallacy. Too much invested to turn back. A person may see so many mistakes in their past if it turns out they were wrong about something, that they can't genuinely entertain the idea that they've been wrong all this time. It's easier to stick to your guns and assume that all contradictory evidence is falsified or corrupted. We are all born as socialists and die as conservatives The last sentence is very true though, which is one of the founding causes for internet-debates being ineffective. But it is just your opinion that you debunked their opinion with facts, whilst they probably think the facts support their opinion. Facts can very often be used by both sides of a debate to support their position. Here's an example. http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/ The scientific evidence is clear: global climate change caused by human activities is occurring now, ... Human‐induced climate change requires urgent action. Some very clever people agree with this statement but there are still some very clever people that disagree. Yes, this is true, but there are issues where people repeat false statements because they are not open to counter arguments. The eternal "The EU never signed off their books!" fallacy being a particular bug-bear of mine, as is the 'We regain control of our borders!' argument. I believe we have clashed on both of those in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon1 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I've not changed political allegiance, however I've had my opinion changed on a couple of issues - though I've had my opinions confirmed on several others! Basically What he ^^ says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANGELFIRE1 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 We are all born as socialists and die as conservatives The last sentence is very true though, which is one of the founding causes for internet-debates being ineffective. Yes, this is true, but there are issues where people repeat false statements because they are not open to counter arguments. The eternal "The EU never signed off their books!" fallacy being a particular bug-bear of mine, as is the 'We regain control of our borders!' argument. I believe we have clashed on both of those in the past It's a bug bear of mine the amount of folk who try to defend the undefendable. What year or indeed years did the EU have it's books ratified, as I cannot find any reference where it states they did. Angel1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 It's a bug bear of mine the amount of folk who try to defend the undefendable. What year or indeed years did the EU have it's books ratified, as I cannot find any reference where it states they did. Angel1. How about every year. EU explains it for you. The UK only introduced a Budget Responsibility and National Audit Act in 2011 which, without going into all sorts of legalistic terminology, provides an improvement on its predecessor, but allows the UK to audit less strict than the EU is being audited. Don't believe me? Try and work out where the money of the National Defence Budget has gone? Or in fact the NHS funding structure which is about as clear as mud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Yes, this is true, but there are issues where people repeat false statements because they are not open to counter arguments. The eternal "The EU never signed off their books!" fallacy being a particular bug-bear of mine, as is the 'We regain control of our borders!' argument. I believe we have clashed on both of those in the past Not on the "The EU never signed off their books" But yes we have clashed on the "We regain control of our borders" I don't get why someone holding a different opinion bugs you, I know you are wrong but it doesn't annoy or bug me that you won't see reason, the world would be a very boring place if we all agreed all of the time. ---------- Post added 26-03-2016 at 17:21 ---------- How about every year. EU explains it for you. The UK only introduced a Budget Responsibility and National Audit Act in 2011 which, without going into all sorts of legalistic terminology, provides an improvement on its predecessor, but allows the UK to audit less strict than the EU is being audited. Don't believe me? Try and work out where the money of the National Defence Budget has gone? Or in fact the NHS funding structure which is about as clear as mud? I think your link is dodgy, it opens this. Related Links Domain Registration Network Monitoring Email Hosting Website Hosting Network Monitoring Software High Speed Internet Cable Internet Broadband Internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Not on the "The EU never signed off their books" But yes we have clashed on the "We regain control of our borders" I don't get why someone holding a different opinion bugs you, I know you are wrong but it doesn't annoy or bug me that you won't see reason, the world would be a very boring place if we all agreed all of the time. ---------- Post added 26-03-2016 at 17:21 ---------- I think your link is dodgy, it opens this. Related Links Domain Registration Network Monitoring Email Hosting Website Hosting Network Monitoring Software High Speed Internet Cable Internet Broadband Internet Odd, this should work: http://ec.europa.eu/budget/explained/myths/myths_en.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty27 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Odd, this should work: http://ec.europa.eu/budget/explained/myths/myths_en.cfm Yep that one works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANGELFIRE1 Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Odd, this should work: http://ec.europa.eu/budget/explained/myths/myths_en.cfm Glad you believe this tripe, a report issued by the EU on the EU. Do turkeys vote for Christmas, does the EU tell us the truth on anything - only on days with a z in them. A corrupt and self serving abomination which hopefully we will leave behind us when we vote LEAVE in the forthcoming referendum. Angel1. ---------- Post added 26-03-2016 at 21:22 ---------- How about every year. EU explains it for you. The UK only introduced a Budget Responsibility and National Audit Act in 2011 which, without going into all sorts of legalistic terminology, provides an improvement on its predecessor, but allows the UK to audit less strict than the EU is being audited. Don't believe me? Try and work out where the money of the National Defence Budget has gone? Or in fact the NHS funding structure which is about as clear as mud? Here you are, in direct opposition to your EU explanation by the EU. Auditors refuse to give EU accounts a clean bill of health for 19th year in a row as rate of unexplained spending rises 23%... with UK liable for £800m European Union spent nearly £6billion in 'error' last year Rural spending was the worst area with £1billion wasted British taxpayers will be liable for more than £800million Looks like the EU are telling us porkies, mind you what do you expect from a corrupt organisation. Angel1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Glad you believe this tripe, a report issued by the EU on the EU. Do turkeys vote for Christmas, does the EU tell us the truth on anything - only on days with a z in them. A corrupt and self serving abomination which hopefully we will leave behind us when we vote LEAVE in the forthcoming referendum. Angel1. ---------- Post added 26-03-2016 at 21:22 ---------- Here you are, in direct opposition to your EU explanation by the EU. Auditors refuse to give EU accounts a clean bill of health for 19th year in a row as rate of unexplained spending rises 23%... with UK liable for £800m European Union spent nearly £6billion in 'error' last year Rural spending was the worst area with £1billion wasted British taxpayers will be liable for more than £800million Looks like the EU are telling us porkies, mind you what do you expect from a corrupt organisation. Angel1. First: provide a source for your nonsense. Second: a clean bill of health is not the same as auditing, in fact, the only way you can state there is no clean bill of health is... By auditing. So you changed the goalposts. Third: thanks for posting in this thread, your dogmatic, self serving interest shines through and demonstrates my exact point about opinion and fact. Whilst we are on that track, please provide me with information on the last time the UK was provided with 'a clean bill of health' through a full audit. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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