How much are we coloured by indoctrination?

[samssong]

I have read all these posts and still come to the same conclusion.

 

Why would these Gods allow ,the holocaust, the rape of Nanking, the Armenian genocide, the crusades, The Rwanda genocide , the Bosnia genocide,all followed by todays terrorism that along with most of the atrocities are carried out in the name of and in many cases with the blessing of the respective religions that so many people profess to be good against evil.

 

Nearly forgot the Spanish civil war where Fascists backed by the church waged war on the poor of that Country.

Edited March 28, 2016 by samssong

[Michael_W]

People take from religion the bits they want to take, just like everything else in life, very few people will follow a faith devoutly. The human mind makes millions of decisions, indoctrination is merely choosing to believe some of what your mind computes as applicable to your way of life, if that makes sense.

[sutty27]

I have read all these posts and still come to the same conclusion.

 

Why would these Gods allow ,the holocaust, the rape of Nanking, the Armenian genocide, the crusades, The Rwanda genocide , the Bosnia genocide,all followed by todays terrorism that along with most of the atrocities are carried out in the name of and in many cases with the blessing of the respective religions that so many people profess to be good against evil.

 

Nearly forgot the Spanish civil war where Fascists backed by the church waged war on the poor of that Country.

 

To add, why would a god give someone hair and then insist it is kept covered, why would a God created humans in such a way that they need sunlight to create Vitamin D and then insist they remain covered up whilst out in the sun.

The belief in a God is irrational and illogical.

[RootsBooster]

I was brought up in a very religious family my mum was a god fearing scottish protestant my dad was a sergeant major in the black watch, probably what you would call indoctrination, religion was part of my upbringing I am still a religious person and a solid believer..it is what shaped me and made me what I am for good or bad..I don't go to church as much now as I used to do,I think of myself as religious person but not a religious maniac,I like to think I am open minded to other faiths and religions and none believers,I just don't like anyone or faith that tries to force or cajole anyone into their beliefs.

 

I think that anyone who admits (publicly or just to themselves) that their irrational beliefs (I'm talking in a literal sense, not using the word 'irrational' to cause offence) stem from what they were told as children, should re-examine their beliefs as an adult from an unbiased point of view (if that's possible).

 

As an adult, if somebody told you today that you should make a wish to a genie because the genie is always watching and may make your wish come true, would you believe that?

[carosio]

The majority of Christians* I've met believe in Heaven, trinity, original sin etc and to this is what I'm interested in. How much of what we believe is indoctrination and how much have we genuinely reasoned for ourselves.

 

The problem is, what or which is the "definitive interpretation" of the Bible (or anything else), and how do we find out? To understand it you really need some form of expert guidance to show that the doctrines developed by the Church Fathers (and many theologians that came after) have scant foundation in the actual texts.

 

The principle message of Jesus' ministry was "The Coming Kingdom of God".

Edward Schillebeeckx.

[GhostRiders]

The problem is, what or which is the "definitive interpretation" of the Bible (or anything else), and how do we find out? To understand it you really need some form of expert guidance to show that the doctrines developed by the Church Fathers (and many theologians that came after) have scant foundation in the actual texts.

 

The principle message of Jesus' ministry was "The Coming Kingdom of God".

Edward Schillebeeckx.

 

The difficulty is who's guidance do you trust? I've been studying religious philosophy for nearly 30 years, I have close friends of all faiths, close friends who are religious scholars and Theologians but absolutely no formal qualifications.

 

I can only give you my opinion of what has worked for me. That is to look at any religious text on a three fold basis.

 

1. Religiously - listen to what those who believe in a text tell you it represents or means. In Christianity the general consensus is that we go to heaven when we die, there is a trinity, Jesus is God and we are flawed due to original sin. There are other interpretations outside this thinking but they are by no means mainstream, and often viewed as non Christian.

 

2. Historical basis of the text - this is basically the 'science' bit and includes linguistic understanding, historical foundations of the stories, archaeological evidence and that kind of thing.

 

3. Philosophical understanding - People can find huge links or huge differences between different faiths depending on their outlook. If you have an understanding of the philosophical links between different faith ideas it often gives you a much greater insight into a particular faith.

 

The difficulty with wanting to look into your own religion, as a religious person is that automatically you trust the authority of the religion you come from, in other words you can't see the woods for the trees. Or to allude to the points above you're quite happy to accept point 1 but tend to attend best ignore, or at worst poo poo the other two.

 

As we have seen on this very thread when you challenge the status quo understanding people are quite happy to shoot you down but when you ask for evidence of what they are claiming (or believe)

they more often than not clamp up, usually because they know there is nothing of substance to argue with but are scared of admitting, usually to themselves, that they might have to question what they cling on to.

 

To understand that Christian foundations aren't present, or have been developed from a different source in the Bible all we need do is read the Bible. The example I gave in the O/P is a good starting point. Adam and Eve were not kicked out of Eden because they disobeyed God (they were actually already punished for that disobedience) but because they would potentially eat from the fruit of the tree of life and become immortal LIKE God.

 

This causes problems with Christian doctrine for far too many reasons to touch upon here but it's in the book, now, any copy of the Bible contains the story and anyone can read it.

 

It wasn't until the new Testament writers tried to fit the Eden story into their own belief system almost two thousand years later that 'original sin' became the foundation of the need for Jesus to redeem each and every one of us. In short, we are indoctrinated into one version of the story to such an extent that even reading the Bible, as many Christians do daily we can't see past what we believe the story to be and see what is, quite literally, staring us in the face.

[Chelle-82]

Me and my OH both come from very large Irish Catholic families who are VERY religious...

 

I had the bible rammed down my neck at every oppertunity by my grandmother and mother growing up, as did my brother and my cousins.. I grew up in a very strict household which was ruled by the laws of the bible!.. My mother was the driving force! which is something obviously passed on by her mother! FORTUNATELY (for me) my dad was quite laid back and compared to how my female cousins were treated by my uncles i got away with loads..

 

My OH's upbringing was even more strict than mine.

 

My OH is now an athiest and i am agnostic..

Edited March 29, 2016 by Chelle-82