Do you consider yourself far left/right ?

[spilldig]

or being over generous with other peoples money????

 

Yes indeed. The trouble with labor is that they eventually run out of other people's money.

[I1L2T3]

Yes indeed. The trouble with labor is that they eventually run out of other people's money.

 

Osborne seems to be doing a pretty good job of spending all our money, and as usual showering it on his friends like confetti

[El Cid]

I am very very libertarian. I don't know how I could have answered them in more libertarian way. Although I did also want to hang some people!!

edit

Actually so did you: but you came off much better than me!

 

We dont see many discussion topics around being a libertarian, would your world involve the Government having much less money?

[unbeliever]

We dont see many discussion topics around being a libertarian, would your world involve the Government having much less money?

 

My bold:

Yes we have.

That's what half the debates on here are about.

I've made the case myself on numerous occasions to reduce the size of government. So has Ron. And many others.

People end up having to fund more for themselves, but then they have more money.

 

It's really quite simple. You cut taxes and public spending. In most cases, you also cut regulation. It doesn't have to increase the gap between rich and poor if you focus on tax cuts that help everybody. VAT for example. Cuts in business taxes have much the same effect.

 

The term "far right" really ought to mean strong libertarian. But instead it's been diverted to mean bigoted socialists.

Edited March 30, 2016 by unbeliever

[sgtkate]

My bold:

Yes we have.

That's what half the debates on here are about.

I've made the case myself on numerous occasions to reduce the size of government. So has Ron. And many others.

People end up having to fund more for themselves, but then they have more money.

 

It's really quite simple. You cut taxes and public spending. In most cases, you also cut regulation. It doesn't have to increase the gap between rich and poor if you focus on tax cuts that help everybody. VAT for example. Cuts in business taxes have much the same effect.

 

The term "far right" really ought to mean strong libertarian. But instead it's been diverted to mean bigoted socialists.

 

No it shouldn't. Far right should simply mean right-wing economic policies. Libertarian is not related in anyway to economics. Perhaps we should all learn to use the words correctly...you can be a communist fascist, and a friedman fascist. You can be a communist libertarian and a friedman libertarian.

 

- Communist - believes in the group above the individual

- Friedman(?) - believes in individuals above the group

- Libertarian - minimal interference from government on public life and a highly changing society

- Authoritarian - high interference from government on public life and a minimally changing society

 

I suspect the confusion comes from that most people have a wrong opinion that parties like the Tories, UKIP and Republicans are some how about 'small government' when they are far more authoritarian than Labour, Greens and Democrats. I suppose people see the benefits system as requiring high levels of government involvement and therefore any left wing economic policy must be authoritarian. It's really the social effects that are more important. The Conservatives are called so for a reason, they are conservative and disliking of social change and are therefore far more authoritative than Labour. (or at least some of the their main voter base is)

 

Basically, the whole thing has been scuppered by a total lack of understanding by people as to their own values.

 

For me it's far more important to be a libertarian than a socialist if I had to choose. I believe that social policy is more important than economic policy. People seem to be able to tick along ok by themselves if given freedom to do so. Whereas a economically great society that is heavily controlled will cause the 'best' to leave.

 

I really don't understand your last line unbeliever...name a single economically right-wing party that is libertarian...

[unbeliever]

No it shouldn't. Far right should simply mean right-wing economic policies. Libertarian is not related in anyway to economics. Perhaps we should all learn to use the words correctly...you can be a communist fascist, and a friedman fascist. You can be a communist libertarian and a friedman libertarian.

 

- Communist - believes in the group above the individual

- Friedman(?) - believes in individuals above the group

- Libertarian - minimal interference from government on public life and a highly changing society

- Authoritarian - high interference from government on public life and a minimally changing society

 

I suspect the confusion comes from that most people have a wrong opinion that parties like the Tories, UKIP and Republicans are some how about 'small government' when they are far more authoritarian than Labour, Greens and Democrats. I suppose people see the benefits system as requiring high levels of government involvement and therefore any left wing economic policy must be authoritarian. It's really the social effects that are more important. The Conservatives are called so for a reason, they are conservative and disliking of social change and are therefore far more authoritative than Labour. (or at least some of the their main voter base is)

 

Basically, the whole thing has been scuppered by a total lack of understanding by people as to their own values.

 

For me it's far more important to be a libertarian than a socialist if I had to choose. I believe that social policy is more important than economic policy. People seem to be able to tick along ok by themselves if given freedom to do so. Whereas a economically great society that is heavily controlled will cause the 'best' to leave.

 

People also believe Hitler was right wing, and he wasn't. He was fascist socially and fairly

 

 

How can you be a libertarian and a socialist?

A socialists thinks the government should be in charge of everything. A libertarian things there should be no government.

Same logic applies to fascists.

[sgtkate]

How can you be a libertarian and a socialist?

A socialists thinks the government should be in charge of everything. A libertarian things there should be no government.

Same logic applies to fascists.

 

No they don't:

 

socialism

 

 

/ˈsəʊʃəlɪz(ə)m/

 

 

noun

 

noun: socialism

 

 

 

 

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

 

It's an economic policy once again and nothing to do with who controls it. You can have communes with no leadership whatsoever which would be the almost perfect definition of libertarianism. You've done the same thing everyone seems to do and gets hung on up left/right wing and social policies when they are not the same.

 

Most people who are far left OR far right (actually far left and right, not just people who think they are by calling people on benefits scroungers) are libertarians. Most people who follow what are called extremist parties are actually terribly authoritarian, fascists you might say. Anyhoo, we are getting into a semantics war.

Edited March 30, 2016 by sgtkate

[I1L2T3]

How can you be a libertarian and a socialist?

A socialists thinks the government should be in charge of everything. A libertarian things there should be no government.

Same logic applies to fascists.

 

You can only apply those labels if you take the extreme forms of libertarianism and socialism as the only forms that can exist. We all know that is nonsense because they don't exist in those forms, and rarely if ever have existed in those forms at any point in history.

 

On that compass thing I am very left but also very libertarian. But that doesn't mean I want the state to own everything and to control everything, or at the other extreme for there to be no state at all.

 

It's quite easy for me to be very left wing and also very libertarian, and also to believe that (a form of) capitalism is the best economic system.

[petemcewan]

SgtKate.

I'm not trying to play daft games with you. But " Libertarianism " cover a lot of ground.

 

I consider myself a socialist. But some of the categories in the list in inverted commas below; I wouldn't have much difficulty in embracing: Anti-authoritarianism ,Anti-war, Class struggle, Free will, Freedom of association,Environmentalism/Ecology (but not deep ecology), Egalitarianism, and Workers control and self- management, etc . N.B, I don't subscribe to the view that the government should be in charge of everything.

 

Out of all of the categories , which ones would best describe your politics ?

 

"For other uses, see Libertarianism (disambiguation).

Part of a series on

Libertarianism

Origins[show]

Concepts[hide]

Anti-authoritarianism Antimilitarism Anti-statism Anti-war Argumentation ethics Class struggle Communes Counter-economics Crypto-anarchism Decentralization Direct action Dispute resolution organization Economic freedom Egalitarianism Expropriative anarchism Free market Free-market environmentalism Free society Free trade Free will Freedom of association Freedom of contract Gift economy Homestead principle Illegalism Individuality Individualism Individual reclamation Laissez-faire Liberty Limited government Localism Marriage privatization Natural and legal rights Night-watchman state Non-aggression principle Non-interventionism Non-politics Non-voting Participatory economics Polycentric law Private defense agency Propaganda of the deed Property Really Really Free Market Refusal of work Restorative justice Self-governance Self-ownership Spontaneous order Squatting Stateless society Tax resistance Title-transfer theory of contract Voluntary association Voluntary society Wage slavery Workers' self-management".

 

Source: Wiki.

Edited March 30, 2016 by petemcewan

[sgtkate]

SgtKate.

I'm not trying to play daft games with you. But " Libertarianism " cover a lot of ground.

 

I consider myself a socialist. But some of the categories in the list in inverted commas below; I wouldn't have much difficulty in embracing: "Anti-authoritarianism ,Anti-war, Class struggle, Free will, Freedom of association,Environmentalism/Ecology (but not deep ecology), Egalitarianism, and Workers control and self- management, etc

 

Out of all of the categories , which ones would best suit your politics ?

 

"For other uses, see Libertarianism (disambiguation).

Part of a series on

Libertarianism

Origins[show]

Concepts[hide]

Anti-authoritarianism Antimilitarism Anti-statism Anti-war Argumentation ethics Class struggle Communes Counter-economics Crypto-anarchism Decentralization Direct action Dispute resolution organization Economic freedom Egalitarianism Expropriative anarchism Free market Free-market environmentalism Free society Free trade Free will Freedom of association Freedom of contract Gift economy Homestead principle Illegalism Individuality Individualism Individual reclamation Laissez-faire Liberty Limited government Localism Marriage privatization Natural and legal rights Night-watchman state Non-aggression principle Non-interventionism Non-politics Non-voting Participatory economics Polycentric law Private defense agency Propaganda of the deed Property Really Really Free Market Refusal of work Restorative justice Self-governance Self-ownership Spontaneous order Squatting Stateless society Tax resistance Title-transfer theory of contract Voluntary association Voluntary society Wage slavery Workers' self-management".

 

Source: Wiki.

 

I can't really read your list, but as a massive generalisation I believe that people should be free to live their lives with minimal interference from anyone else, as long as they do not cause harm or unacceptable inconvenience to others. Ideally, I'd love a self-policing society that doesn't require a formal police force or for anyone to have a position of power over others. Sadly, I don't think that will ever be possible as there will always be people who differ so greatly that no middle ground can be found which leads to conflict and ultimately someone trying to take power through force. It's happened time and time again in history and I see no evidence that we've changed enough to try it again. A fully free market, bizarrely yes I do support that, but again what we have now isn't a free market at all, it's a heavily manipulated one.

 

This is what I mean, I am more a libertarian than I am a socialist as I believe a properly libertarian society would drift into socialism anyway.