Ted Heath Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I am a Tory. I say nationalise the British Steel Industry. Impose tariffs on imported steel if necessary. Labour bankrupted us bailing out the banking industry, whats £365 million a year in the great scheme of things? We are shortly to go it alone when we come out of the EU, we need a strong steel industry if we are not to have to go cap in hand for a valuable resource. I am vehemently anti nationalization, but not in this case. Pass me my banner I am marching with the unions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I am a Tory. I say nationalise the British Steel Industry. Impose tariffs on imported steel if necessary. Labour bankrupted us bailing out the banking industry, whats £365 million a year in the great scheme of things? We are shortly to go it alone when we come out of the EU, we need a strong steel industry if we are not to have to go cap in hand for a valuable resource. I am vehemently anti nationalization, but not in this case. Pass me my banner I am marching with the unions. Bit in bold is exactly the point I'm making. And why when you compare it to the recently announced tax breaks for higher earners it is peanuts. Let's wind the clock back a bit though. Tata bought out Corus in 2007 which in hindsight was a disastrous move by the Labour government. Corus was profitable at that point and one of the biggest steel makers in Europe. Tata Steel in comparison was a relative minnow that had to borrow heavily from Indian investors to complete the sale. Why did Labour sell a nationally strategically important company to such a small outfit? I guess it doesn't matter now but the Tories have a chance to put this right. As you point out now would be the worst time to let the plant fail because a few months down the line after a Brexit vote it could turn out to be a critical mistake. But unbelievably some of the loudest proponents on here for Brexit are also calling for the plant to be shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 I can assure you that I not lying. You do know that they have a rather large steel making base in Holland that can produce the steel for the chassis of the cars significantly cheaper than Port Talbot. So that steel is sourced from ijmuiden. The ONLY place in Tata that can produce the alloy steels for the engine and associated drive systems is Rotherham and they don't supply JLR. JLR don't need the UK plants for their supply at all. Why do you think ijmuiden is not subject to closure? It is because it is a much better plant in terms of cost and can supply all their demand. Let me just quote your lie back at you so there can be no confusion. Wrong. I know for a fact Jaguar and Land Rover don't use steel made in Britain. That is a total an outright lie. I have shown it to be a lie. It is a lie. But if you would like to try to back up your lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ez8004 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 That is a total an outright lie. I have shown it to be a lie. It is a lie. But if you would like to try to back up your lie. You haven't shown anything. The two quotes from the Telegraph does not say that the steel is sourced from any Tata plant within the UK. It is actually from Tata Steel in ijmuiden. The steel used in the engines can only come from Rotherham if Tata sourced it within Tata Steel and that isn't the case, it is from the French steelmaker, Ascometal and most likely dual sourced with the German supplier GMH. You do not have to believe me if you want to continue living in your deluded hole. If you are from within the industry you will know what is true or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted77 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Maybe this also has a bearing, paying a 70% premium on the price, borrowing 10 billion to buy it and expecting the profits from europe to pay it back. Also it's interesting the Corus were making $800 million when it was sold (I know market conditions have changed) http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/31/tata-decision-india-britain-steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ez8004 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Bit in bold is exactly the point I'm making. And why when you compare it to the recently announced tax breaks for higher earners it is peanuts. Let's wind the clock back a bit though. Tata bought out Corus in 2007 which in hindsight was a disastrous move by the Labour government. Corus was profitable at that point and one of the biggest steel makers in Europe. Tata Steel in comparison was a relative minnow that had to borrow heavily from Indian investors to complete the sale. Why did Labour sell a nationally strategically important company to such a small outfit? I guess it doesn't matter now but the Tories have a chance to put this right. As you point out now would be the worst time to let the plant fail because a few months down the line after a Brexit vote it could turn out to be a critical mistake. But unbelievably some of the loudest proponents on here for Brexit are also calling for the plant to be shut down. Tata buying Corus at the time was the best thing that could have happened. In 2002 Corus nearly collapsed with the failed takeover of the Brazlian ore producer CSN and their shares collapsed to just 4p. Then move to 2007 when the economy was booming and Corus was subject to a takeover coincidentally by CSN. Tata then entered the fray with counter offers. Of the two Tata was definitely the preferred buyer. Tata did invest heavily within the UK straight away in a bid to make us more competitive. However, the disadvantage of an energy price disparity compared the to the rest of the EU along with the green taxes in the form of the carbon credit scheme it effectively made it impossible to be competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) You haven't shown anything. The two quotes from the Telegraph does not say that the steel is sourced from any Tata plant within the UK. It is actually from Tata Steel in ijmuiden. The steel used in the engines can only come from Rotherham if Tata sourced it within Tata Steel and that isn't the case, it is from the French steelmaker, Ascometal and most likely dual sourced with the German supplier GMH. You do not have to believe me if you want to continue living in your deluded hole. If you are from within the industry you will know what is true or not. Actually it is you that hasn't produced a single shread of evidence to back up a word you have said. It isn't difficult to work out why. Because you are just continuing to lie through your back teeth. The linked articles stated that Jaguar LandRover use UK produced steel. The unions were insisting that JLR continue to buy UK produced steel. Jaguar Land Rover workers demand Tata UK steel in the cars - A Tata Steel spokesman said: "We supply high performance automotive steels to Jaguar Land Rover which are manufactured at our UK plant A JLR spokesman told the Daily Telegraph: "We continue to use high performance, specialist steel supplied by Tata Steel in the UK They also buy steel subframes and suspension parts from Benteler in Corby as well as many other engineering parts from other UK manufacturers. You can carry on with your deluded rant, but I will continue to call you a liar unless you back up your lies. Edited March 31, 2016 by foxy lady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubaidani13 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 i dont know what all the fuss is about, its a private company and they can do whatever they want with it, sell it or close it, there is no point in bailing it out or nationalising it as it cant produce the product at a competitive price, the Chinese have the production and now dictate the price its simple economics, by all means bring in higher tariffs but in the long run we need cheap steel but we cant produce it.....by the way a lot of the blame lies with europe!!! let it fail like the coal mines unprofitable and unworkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 i dont know what all the fuss is about, its a private company and they can do whatever they want with it, sell it or close it, there is no point in bailing it out or nationalising it as it cant produce the product at a competitive price, the Chinese have the production and now dictate the price its simple economics, by all means bring in higher tariffs but in the long run we need cheap steel but we cant produce it.....by the way a lot of the blame lies with europe!!! let it fail like the coal mines unprofitable and unworkable. Because the Chinese are dumping their steel. And also because the UK government is blocking the imposition of tariffs. Our EU partners actually want to introduce them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 We'd need to leave the EU to nationalise this Steel plant. EU rules don't allow state subsidy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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