Tata Steel to sell UK all assets

[foxy lady]

Because the Chinese are dumping their steel. And also because the UK government is blocking the imposition of tariffs. Our EU partners actually want to introduce them!!

 

That's quite funny really. If the EU impose restrictions on Chinese goods the Chinese will impose similar penalties on those from the EU. The UK supplies rather a lot of high end cars to China. Rolls Royce, Bentley, McLaren, Jaguar, Range Rover, Aston Martin. We would lose rather a lot of business.

 

In return we would still have a steel manufacturer that has posted losses of around £2 billion over the last decade, long before any problem emerged with Chinese Steel in the UK. It would still be a company up against a 30% tax on its exports to the USA.

[I1L2T3]

We'd need to leave the EU to nationalise this Steel plant. EU rules don't allow state subsidy.

 

Another Ukip myth. We discussed this a few pages ago.

 

---------- Post added 31-03-2016 at 18:04 ----------

 

That's quite funny really. If the EU impose restrictions on Chinese goods the Chinese will impose similar penalties on those from the EU. The UK supplies rather a lot of high end cars to China. Rolls Royce, Bentley, McLaren, Jaguar, Range Rover, Aston Martin. We would lose rather a lot of business.

 

In return we would still have a steel manufacturer that has posted losses of around £2 billion over the last decade, long before any problem emerged with Chinese Steel in the UK. It would still be a company up against a 30% tax on its exports to the USA.

 

The Chinese are never going to put prohibitively high tariffs on high end vehicles. Where else are they going to get them from?

 

Next argument please....

[ez8004]

Actually it is you that hasn't produced a single shread of evidence to back up a word you have said. It isn't difficult to work out why. Because you are just continuing to lie through your back teeth.

The linked articles stated that Jaguar LandRover use UK produced steel. The unions were insisting that JLR continue to buy UK produced steel.

 

Jaguar Land Rover workers demand Tata UK steel in the cars -

A Tata Steel spokesman said: "We supply high performance automotive steels to Jaguar Land Rover which are manufactured at our UK plant

A JLR spokesman told the Daily Telegraph: "We continue to use high performance, specialist steel supplied by Tata Steel in the UK

 

 

They also buy steel subframes and suspension parts from Benteler in Corby as well as many other engineering parts from other UK manufacturers. You can carry on with your deluded rant, but I will continue to call you a liar unless you back up your lies.

 

So they buy from Benteler that Austrian based company who actually sources their steel from Germany such as GMH and also Swiss Steel.

 

Since you are obviously in the know. Go ask a steel worker from Rotherham. Wait, you don't know any as you obviously have no idea. What JLR did to the engineering steels unit in Rotherham was unforgivable.

[sutty27]

I am a Tory.

 

I say nationalise the British Steel Industry.

 

Impose tariffs on imported steel if necessary.

 

Labour bankrupted us bailing out the banking industry, whats £365 million a year in the great scheme of things?

 

We are shortly to go it alone when we come out of the EU, we need a strong steel industry if we are not to have to go cap in hand for a valuable resource.

 

I am vehemently anti nationalization, but not in this case.

 

Pass me my banner I am marching with the unions.

 

We are not permitted to do that because the EU sets the tariffs.

 

---------- Post added 31-03-2016 at 18:15 ----------

 

Bit in bold is exactly the point I'm making. And why when you compare it to the recently announced tax breaks for higher earners it is peanuts.

 

Let's wind the clock back a bit though. Tata bought out Corus in 2007 which in hindsight was a disastrous move by the Labour government. Corus was profitable at that point and one of the biggest steel makers in Europe. Tata Steel in comparison was a relative minnow that had to borrow heavily from Indian investors to complete the sale.

 

Why did Labour sell a nationally strategically important company to such a small outfit? I guess it doesn't matter now but the Tories have a chance to put this right.

 

As you point out now would be the worst time to let the plant fail because a few months down the line after a Brexit vote it could turn out to be a critical mistake. But unbelievably some of the loudest proponents on here for Brexit are also calling for the plant to be shut down.

 

I thought Corus was a private company not a state owned company.

[the_bloke]

Another Ukip myth. We discussed this a few pages ago.

 

No, you sort of danced around it. You were linked an article (the second time it's been linked in this thread) which stated that the member states of the EU are not allowed to bail out the steel industry with public money. It's straight from the EU's mouth.

 

'EU State aid rules do not allow public support for the rescue and restructuring of companies in difficulty in the steel sector. The steel sector was excluded by agreement of EU Member States and the Commission in the mid-1990s (Commission Decision No 2496/96/ECSC). Since then, the EU followed a market-driven approach to achieve the capacity adjustments and restructuring necessary to ensure a viable and sustainable steel industry in Europe. The Commission has to continue to apply State aid rules consistently to ensure a level playing field for those steelmakers that have already been carrying out painful and costly restructuring plans funded through private resources. Furthermore, as past experience has shown, allowing rescue and restructuring aid would distort competition and risk leading to subsidy races between Member States'

 

With respect to the EU supposedly not imposing anti dumping rules:

 

'In the field of trade policy, fair competition globally is part of an open and forward looking trade agenda. Trade defence instruments, such as anti-dumping or anti-subsidy, are ways of protecting European Union against international trade distortions and unfair trade. In the EU, there are currently 34 definitive measures in place on imports of steel products. In addition, there are new anti-dumping/anti-subsidy investigations ongoing for 6 other steel products'

Edited March 31, 2016 by the_bloke

[sutty27]

 

As you point out now would be the worst time to let the plant fail because a few months down the line after a Brexit vote it could turn out to be a critical mistake. But unbelievably some of the loudest proponents on here for Brexit are also calling for the plant to be shut down.

 

A Brexit vote would have been the only way to save it, but it will come too late.

 

---------- Post added 31-03-2016 at 18:19 ----------

 

Another Ukip myth. We discussed this a few pages ago.

 

And confirmed to be true on BBC news five minutes ago. So not a myth.

[ez8004]

We are not permitted to do that because the EU sets the tariffs.

 

---------- Post added 31-03-2016 at 18:15 ----------

 

 

I thought Corus was a private company not a state owned company.

 

You are correct Corus was a merger between British Steel and Klondike Hoogovens

[Dubaidani13]

Because the Chinese are dumping their steel. And also because the UK government is blocking the imposition of tariffs. Our EU partners actually want to introduce them!!

 

the chinese are free to do what ever they want with their products??

if we impose tariffs then our exports will suffer so you makes your choice????

the Eu ones would be so punitive as to have the same effect.

[I1L2T3]

No, you sort of danced around it. You were linked an article (the second time it's been linked in this thread) which stated that the member states of the EU are not allowed to bail out the steel industry with public money. It's straight from the EU's mouth.

 

'EU State aid rules do not allow public support for the rescue and restructuring of companies in difficulty in the steel sector. The steel sector was excluded by agreement of EU Member States and the Commission in the mid-1990s (Commission Decision No 2496/96/ECSC). Since then, the EU followed a market-driven approach to achieve the capacity adjustments and restructuring necessary to ensure a viable and sustainable steel industry in Europe. The Commission has to continue to apply State aid rules consistently to ensure a level playing field for those steelmakers that have already been carrying out painful and costly restructuring plans funded through private resources. Furthermore, as past experience has shown, allowing rescue and restructuring aid would distort competition and risk leading to subsidy races between Member States'

 

With respect to the EU supposedly not imposing anti dumping rules:

 

'In the field of trade policy, fair competition globally is part of an open and forward looking trade agenda. Trade defence instruments, such as anti-dumping or anti-subsidy, are ways of protecting European Union against international trade distortions and unfair trade. In the EU, there are currently 34 definitive measures in place on imports of steel products. In addition, there are new anti-dumping/anti-subsidy investigations ongoing for 6 other steel products'

 

1. The rules may not permit it but as I mentioned there is nothing to stop us supporting the plant on a temporary basis. If it was sustained then yeah we'd face an investigation which would kind of be pointless anyway if we voted for Brexit. The disingenuous bit is where people say the EU won't let us do it. There is actually nothing at all to stop us doing it as long as we know there could be a investigation/penalty/order to dispose of the company later on.

 

2. Whatever anti-dumping rules are in place are clearly not effective. It couldn't be clearer.

 

Now, here is what really scares me about a lot of Brexiters on here. It seems to me they hate British business as much as they hate the EU, and are only too happy to leave the EU and kowtow to the Chinese instead. You really couldn't make it up.

 

---------- Post added 31-03-2016 at 19:24 ----------

 

the chinese are free to do what ever they want with their products??

if we impose tariffs then our exports will suffer so you makes your choice????

the Eu ones would be so punitive as to have the same effect.

 

Our exports already suffer because it is already not a level playing field.

 

Chinese industry is subsidised to such an extent that it would be impossible for us to break into the Chinese domestic market in many cases.

 

Free trade, which I guess is what you are alluding to, where the Chinese are involved means they can freely dump their goods while protecting their domestic industry.

 

Read this, then come back and we'll have a chat

http://www.amazon.com/Free-Trade-Doesnt-Work-Replace/dp/0578079674

[sutty27]

1. The rules may not permit it but as I mentioned there is nothing to stop us supporting the plant on a temporary basis. If it was sustained then yeah we'd face an investigation which would kind of be pointless anyway if we voted for Brexit. The disingenuous bit is where people say the EU won't let us do it. There is actually nothing at all to stop us doing it as long as we know there could be a investigation/penalty/order to dispose of the company later on.

 

2. Whatever anti-dumping rules are in place are clearly not effective. It couldn't be clearer.

 

Now, here is what really scares me about a lot of Brexiters on here. It seems to me they hate British business as much as they hate the EU, and are only too happy to leave the EU and kowtow to the Chinese instead. You really couldn't make it up.

 

What a desperately bizarre thing to say. :loopy: