Tata Steel to sell UK all assets

[I1L2T3]

Isn't that precicely what you are proposing that we do?

I'm struggling with your assertion that the Chinese plantsare not viable. They are mainly modern efficient plants with low wage workforces, cheap raw materials and efficient operations. They have been hit by a slow down in demand in the Chinese market, but are still capable of producing steel cheaper than any plant in Europe or the USA. So in any free market they will win the sales battle.

 

They are not viable because if the Chinese government stopped subsidising them they'd close very quickly, even with the other advantages they hold. In fact without state support and in the commercial/regulatory environment the EU operates in they might never been built at all. For example their power generation is the most polluting in the world. They bring new coal fired power plants on stream practically every month.

 

I'm struggling with the fact that you seem happy to support a communist government.

[foxy lady]

Omg. Do I need to wipe your arse and join the dots for you. Ok, just this time.

 

https://www.bspensions.com/media/userfiles/files/Special%20Newsbrief%202016.pdf

 

As for the debt. It is my fault you posted old inaccurate numbers. Ok.

 

Probably get someone to change your incontinence pad. You should perhaps reflect on how a pension scheme works. It relies on folk paying in to payout those who are retired and taking payments. What you link to there is nothing more than a financial statement at a moment in time. So as reported in several places including the BBC the pension fund is facing a funding gap of up to £2 billion. Just so even you can understand that. If the company is wound up the pension contibutions would cease to be put in whilst further folk would continue to take out. Hence the reported £2 billion shortfall.

 

---------- Post added 01-04-2016 at 17:18 ----------

 

They are not viable because if the Chinese government stopped subsidising them they'd close very quickly, even with the other advantages they hold. In fact without state support and in the commercial/regulatory environment the EU operates in they might never been built at all. For example their power generation is the most polluting in the world. They bring new coal fired power plants on stream practically every month.

 

I'm struggling with the fact that you seem happy to support a communist government.

 

I don't support communist governments. I don't agree with how China is run or how it polutes the planet. But as there is nothing we can do about that we have to live with it. But that is nothing to do with the viability of the Chinese steel industry. Its capacity or the simple fact that it is able to make steel cheaper than we can. Why wouldn't they be able to? They have cheap labour mining iron ore locally. They have cheap labour making the steel.

Edited April 1, 2016 by foxy lady

[ez8004]

Probably get someone to change your incontinence pad. You should perhaps reflect on how a pension scheme works. It relies on folk paying in to payout those who are retired and taking payments. What you link to there is nothing more than a financial statement at a moment in time. So as reported in several places including the BBC the pension fund is facing a funding gap of up to £2 billion. Just so even you can understand that. If the company is wound up the pension contibutions would cease to be put in whilst further folk would continue to take out. Hence the reported £2 billion shortfall.

 

Did you even read that link? It stated what would happen if the pension scheme was wound up. It said that the benefits would be reduced to 72% in order to buy sufficient insurance policies to continue paying out to existing members. There is no £2bn shortfall. The benefits would be reduced and there is no mandatory requirement to continue paying the benefits at the full amount. I know how pensions work. Do you? Obviously not.

[foxy lady]

Did you even read that link? It stated what would happen if the pension scheme was wound up. It said that the benefits would be reduced to 72% in order to buy sufficient insurance policies to continue paying out to existing members. There is no £2bn shortfall. The benefits would be reduced and there is no mandatory requirement to continue paying the benefits at the full amount. I know how pensions work. Do you? Obviously not.

 

I think what you just posted amounts a shortfall. Do you even know what a shortfall is? Obviously not.

[I1L2T3]

I don't support communist governments. I don't agree with how China is run or how it polutes the planet. But as there is nothing we can do about that we have to live with it. But that is nothing to do with the viability of the Chinese steel industry. Its capacity or the simple fact that it is able to make steel cheaper than we can. Why wouldn't they be able to? They have cheap labour mining iron ore locally. They have cheap labour making the steel.

 

You're clearly supporting a communist government that does not want to operate within the spirit of free trade, is exploiting cheap labour and denying rights to those workers, and with its pollution is undoing all the progress that other nations are making. I suppose if they shaft us in a future trade deal you'd be happy for us to just roll over and take it.

 

If it's good enough for George Osborne it's good enough for you right?

[ez8004]

I think what you just posted amounts a shortfall. Do you even know what a shortfall is? Obviously not.

 

You were inferring that there is a need to find £2bn to fund the scheme. There is NO NEED to. Not to mention, if you actually read the link and you obviously still haven't. There is also the option to continue to run it as a closed fund. Either way, no extra money is required. Let me say it again. NO EXTRA MONEY IS NEEDED.

[gomgeg]

Totally selfless:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11735886/Former-Ukip-MEP-jailed-over-500k-expenses-fraud.html

 

That's our taxes he stole.

Would that be Peter Skinner? The Labour MEP for the south east, who's been convicted of fiddling half a million quid in expenses, and now faces a jail sentence.

[RJRB]

Just a point of fact ,China is a massive importer of iron ore from the world markets such as Australia and Brazil.something like 950 million tonnes in 2015 and their record month was Dec 2015.

No doubt they have cheap labour ,subsidised energy,low standards as regards pollution etc,but overwhelmingly they have the long term intention to dominate world markets in every respect and in a wide range of products.

The slumbering giant has really woken up in the last 10 years.

[Mister M]

Just a point of fact ,China is a massive importer of iron ore from the world markets such as Australia and Brazil.something like 950 million tonnes in 2015 and their record month was Dec 2015.

No doubt they have cheap labour ,subsidised energy,low standards as regards pollution etc,but overwhelmingly they have the long term intention to dominate world markets in every respect and in a wide range of products.

The slumbering giant has really woken up in the last 10 years.

 

Well quite, the rapid rise of China's dominance in steel production is spectacular. And whilst the price of steel has slumped recently, that won't last forever....Britain, and other countries, which have no large steel making capacity could find themselves in deep doo doo.

It is worrying

[foxy lady]

You were inferring that there is a need to find £2bn to fund the scheme. There is NO NEED to. Not to mention, if you actually read the link and you obviously still haven't. There is also the option to continue to run it as a closed fund. Either way, no extra money is required. Let me say it again. NO EXTRA MONEY IS NEEDED.

 

But then according to the FT there is, which the FT is saying is a major obstacle to any deal to sell on the company. They say that the unions called a strike over a £2 billion deficit in the pension fund in 2014. That Tata were putting in money to address it but had only put in a further £85 million over 2 years and there was still a huge funding gap which would eventually have been filled had Tata continued to put in a lot of extra cash over coming years.

 

They further say that Greybull, which is in talks to buy the Scunthorpe operation from Tata, is offering a reduced pension scheme and does not want to assume historic obligations.

 

So, let me say again. EXTRA MONEY IS STILL NEEDED.

 

Itls not exactly a state secret..

 

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/ahead-of-union-ballot-results-tata-steel-warns-of-long-term-impact-from-pension-scheme-deficit/article7260249.ece;

 

London, May 29:

 

Tata Steel’s European head has warned that the deficit under the current pension scheme could jeopardise the long term future of the company’s UK operations if not tackled.

 

In an “open letter” ahead of the results of the ballots by three of the four unions representing Tata Steel’s UK employees, Karl Koehler said that the company would work with unions and employees to address concerns about aspects of the proposed new scheme.

 

“I hope everyone agrees with one thing: that we have to change the pension scheme in order to deal with a shortfall as high as 2 billion pounds which is not sustainable and which would damage the long term prospects of our company in the UK,” he wrote.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/30/tata-steels-british-plants-must-be-sold-within-weeks

 

The company’s pension costs are a “huge problem”, they added. Tata warned last year that it faced a £2bn pension deficit in the UK. The British Steel Pension Scheme has liabilities of £14.5bn, according to its latest accounts. The trustees of the pension scheme said on Wednesday night that they would seek talks with Tata and are in contact with the Pensions Regulator about the crisis.

Edited April 1, 2016 by foxy lady