Tata Steel to sell UK all assets

[foxy lady]

And more competitive prices would make that easier, surely producing steel in Romania would be cheaper than producing it in the UK, and if its cheaper it would be easier to sell worldwide and better for our internal market.

 

You may well have a point. Making a £350 ton of steel doesn't really provide many jobs. Using that ton of steel to make an £18,000 Toyota does. Probably 500 man/hours

 

Toyota can buy steel anywhere in the world. They can build Toyotas anywhere in the world where raw materials are competitive.

 

We can either provide cheap raw materials and have Toyotas made here, or we can price that out of the market and have them built in Romania, providing jobs there, and import the finished Toyotas here.

 

---------- Post added 03-04-2016 at 10:15 ----------

 

But they have tight budgets so they will very likely continue to buy the cheapest.

 

Interesting question. When did you last see a UK built fire engine, ambulance, police car etc?

[ricgem2002]

But they will only take that money of us in taxes which puts up the costs again.

thank god for the living wage then eh

 

---------- Post added 03-04-2016 at 10:20 ----------

 

Interesting question. When did you last see a UK built fire engine, ambulance, police car etc?

probably in the 70/80s before thatcher sold everything off and look at the state we are in now

[I1L2T3]

probably in the 70/80s before thatcher sold everything off and look at the state we are in now

 

Peter Hitchens nails it today in the Mail. The Thatcherite con and its terrible legacy:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3520932/PETER-HITCHENS-Privatisation-Free-trade-Shares-great-ruined-Britain.html

[ECCOnoob]

Peter Hitchens nails it today in the Mail. The Thatcherite con and its terrible legacy:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3520932/PETER-HITCHENS-Privatisation-Free-trade-Shares-great-ruined-Britain.html

 

Doesn't "nail it" at all. Load of rose tinted nostalgic guff.

 

I too remember the days of the good old British car industry. Yes, the great names of British Leyland, the massive conglomerate so excessively flabby and mismanaged that departments would not talk to each other and its own dealers were competing with each other just yards apart.

 

Yes, those great British production lines filled with striking and indifferent workers churning out products with bits missing, bits not connected and poorly finished. God forbid anyone tried to improve standards and increase efficiency. Would only take seconds before they would be drowned out by the screams of "everybody out"

 

Those with selected memories might want to re-learn that it was we the British Public who started lapping up foreign imports. Cars that start on a wintery day?? Oh god, who'd have thought it was possible. Leyland and Rover certainly didn't.

 

As for the rest of the article, PH has obviously been "travelling through the heartlands" blind. We still have chocolate factories here. We still make railway carriages.

 

Mr Hitchens, the reason you cant buy british made general goods (except for high end boutiques) is because we the public demand cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. You cant have a ever increasing minimum wage and demand that retailers offer bargain basement prices.

 

You want clothes for £3, food items for pennies, household appliances for less than £40, televisions for less than £60 then you get them made by those funny foreigners on their slave level wages.

 

WE ALL contribute to the decline of British industry. Want to save it. Then pay for it.

 

Cant have it both ways.

 

I have said before (and its been experimented several times) if you launched an all British worker made, all British materials, genuinely fairly priced product out on the market the first question will be how much? The next statement will be, where can I get the same cheaper?

 

Now, whose fault is that? The manufacturer? The company owners? The government? How about YOU the consumer?

Edited April 3, 2016 by ECCOnoob

[I1L2T3]

Doesn't "nail it" at all. Load of rose tinted nostalgic guff.

 

I too remember the days of the good old British car industry. Yes, the great names of British Leyland, the massive conglomerate so excessively flabby and mismanaged that departments would not talk to each other and its own dealers were competing with each other just yards apart.

 

Yes, those great British production lines filled with striking and indifferent workers churning out products with bits missing, bits not connected and poorly finished.

 

Those with selected memories might want to re-learn that it was we the British Public who started lapping up foreign imports. Cars that start on a wintery day?? Oh god, who'd have thought it was possible. Leyland and Rover certainly didn't.

 

As for the rest of the article, PH has obviously been "travelling through the heartlands" blind. We still have chocolate factories here. We still make railway carriages.

 

Mr Hitchens, the reason you cant buy british made general goods (except for high end boutiques) is because we the public demand cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. You cant have a ever increasing minimum wage and demand that retailers offer bargain basement prices.

 

You want clothes for £3, food items for pennies, household appliances for less than £40, televisions for less than £60 then you get them made by those funny foreigners on their slave level wages.

 

WE ALL contribute to the decline of British industry. Want to save it. Then pay for it.

 

Cant have it both ways.

 

The problem Ecco is you don't seem to be able to spot a genuine one nation British Conservative when you see one.

 

You and the likes of Foxy are as sucked-in to the neoliberal free trade globalist agenda as Blair, Brown, Clegg, Osborne and Cameron.

 

It's an agenda that doesn't stand up for Britain, and makes apologies for a corrupt communist regime, makes apologies for pollution and for the use of cheap labour, and makes apologies for a globalist agenda that we all know has gone badly wrong.

 

You don't fly the flag for Britain. Don't even pretend you do.

[ECCOnoob]

The problem Ecco is you don't seem to be able to spot a genuine one nation British Conservative when you see one.

 

You and the likes of Foxy are as sucked-in to the neoliberal free trade globalist agenda as Blair, Brown, Clegg, Osborne and Cameron.

 

It's an agenda that doesn't stand up for Britain, and makes apologies for a corrupt communist regime, makes apologies for pollution and for the use of cheap labour, and makes apologies for a globalist agenda that we all know has gone badly wrong.

 

You don't fly the flag for Britain. Don't even pretend you do.

 

So what's your solution?

 

Force people at gunpoint to pay more for goods just because they are British made?

 

Build a wall, close the borders and leave us to fester in our own society, lifestyle and industries?

 

Thanks to the world of the internet, the planet has never been smaller. People can buy and import items from anywhere they so choose and for whatever price they CHOOSE to pay for them.

 

I am trying to point out the very much ignored hypocrisy of us British public who get their DVDs online from Amazon or imported from abroad and then go crying when retailers like HMV and Woolworths close their doors.

 

Us British public rioting and nearly trampling on each other to get inside a newly opened Primark or to get our hands on some budget unknown foreign brand television but then crying and demanding the government step in and save our industries.

 

Its sod all to do with my political leanings or even any neo liberalism guff. Its being realistic.

 

All your "genuine British Conservative" nonsense belongs in the days of the ark.

 

Like it or not globalisation IS here. We as a country, we as businesses, we as consumers have took great advantage of that. Cant be crying about it now.

 

We get goods cheaper, we take advantage of global trade, we take advantage of emerging markets, we take advantage of low salaries and low overheads, we have took advantage of free movement and now we are taking advantage of the online world too.

 

---------- Post added 03-04-2016 at 13:01 ----------

 

"Industry" evolves and we need to evolve with it.

 

Just because the mass manufacturing might be in decline does not mean that "industry" has gone too.

 

"industry" is different these days. People make thousands of pounds sitting behind a computer tapping away on a keyboard.

 

People are making great things for the fields of aviation, arms, robotics and pharmaceuticals. These are people in shirt, ties and white coats, not mucky overalls these days.

 

There are kids who have made hundreds of thousands of pounds and are famous names just for posting home made films on the internet.

 

Even some of the traditional crafts are making a comeback. Remember the days when people would go to a baker to buy their daily bread, their specialist butcher to get their meats and even get their furniture made by a craft carpenter.

 

Well, take a look around certain postcodes, those trades are back with a vengeance and making more money than ever before. The trend of artisan bakery, specialist butchery and crafted furnishings is making a killing from the upper classes and "organic" lifestyle types.

Edited April 3, 2016 by ECCOnoob

[foxy lady]

Doesn't "nail it" at all. Load of rose tinted nostalgic guff.

 

I too remember the days of the good old British car industry. Yes, the great names of British Leyland, the massive conglomerate so excessively flabby and mismanaged that departments would not talk to each other and its own dealers were competing with each other just yards apart.

 

Yes, those great British production lines filled with striking and indifferent workers churning out products with bits missing, bits not connected and poorly finished. God forbid anyone tried to improve standards and increase efficiency. Would only take seconds before they would be drowned out by the screams of "everybody out"

 

Those with selected memories might want to re-learn that it was we the British Public who started lapping up foreign imports. Cars that start on a wintery day?? Oh god, who'd have thought it was possible. Leyland and Rover certainly didn't.

 

As for the rest of the article, PH has obviously been "travelling through the heartlands" blind. We still have chocolate factories here. We still make railway carriages.

 

Mr Hitchens, the reason you cant buy british made general goods (except for high end boutiques) is because we the public demand cheaper and cheaper and cheaper. You cant have a ever increasing minimum wage and demand that retailers offer bargain basement prices.

 

You want clothes for £3, food items for pennies, household appliances for less than £40, televisions for less than £60 then you get them made by those funny foreigners on their slave level wages.

 

WE ALL contribute to the decline of British industry. Want to save it. Then pay for it.

 

Cant have it both ways.

 

I have said before (and its been experimented several times) if you launched an all British worker made, all British materials, genuinely fairly priced product out on the market the first question will be how much? The next statement will be, where can I get the same cheaper?

 

Now, whose fault is that? The manufacturer? The company owners? The government? How about YOU the consumer?

 

My grandfather was a BL dealer. New Marinas arrived on a transporter and went into the workshop to have all the suspension bolts tightened. The cars were sprayed from the sides at the factory, so roof gutters masked the edges of the roof. So the cars were partly resprayed before they were put on sale. The company laughed as Japanese cars arrived in the UK. A decade later they had taken over.

[I1L2T3]

So what's your solution?

 

Force people at gunpoint to pay more for goods just because they are British made?

 

Build a wall, close the borders and leave us to fester in our own society, lifestyle and industries?

 

Thanks to the world of the internet, the planet has never been smaller. People can buy and import items from anywhere they so choose and for whatever price they CHOOSE to pay for them.

 

I am trying to point out the very much ignored hypocrisy of us British public who get their DVDs online from Amazon or imported from abroad and then go crying when retailers like HMV and Woolworths close their doors.

 

Us British public rioting and nearly trampling on each other to get inside a newly opened Primark or to get our hands on some budget unknown foreign brand television but then crying and demanding the government step in and save our industries.

 

Its sod all to do with my political leanings or even any neo liberalism guff. Its being realistic.

 

All your "genuine British Conservative" nonsense belongs in the days of the ark.

 

Like it or not globalisation IS here. We as a country, we as businesses, we as consumers have took great advantage of that. Cant be crying about it now.

 

We get goods cheaper, we take advantage of global trade, we take advantage of emerging markets, we take advantage of low salaries and low overheads, we have took advantage of free movement and now we are taking advantage of the online world too.

 

There is one simple thing underpinning everything really, and that is the notion of global free trade.

 

We don't have free trade, and the events of the last week should make that very, very clear.

 

I've already posted a link to this book but I really recommend you read it. The solutions are in there. It's focused on the USA but I've not read a better analysis of how the notion of 'free trade' can trash a country, especially when the policies supporting it are implemented by doctrinaire politicians.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Free-Trade-Doesnt-Work-Replace/dp/0578079674

 

The main solution is a kind of dynamic tariff but don't get too excited by the word 'tariff'. You will understand why they are necessary if you read the book.

 

---------- Post added 03-04-2016 at 13:12 ----------

 

My grandfather was a BL dealer. New Marinas arrived on a transporter and went into the workshop to have all the suspension bolts tightened. The cars were sprayed from the sides at the factory, so roof gutters masked the edges of the roof. So the cars were partly resprayed before they were put on sale. The company laughed as Japanese cars arrived in the UK. A decade later they had taken over.

 

Japan is not the same as China though is it. It's a liberal, democratic, low polluting advanced manufacturing economy with mature industrial relations, high wages and excellent workers rights.

 

You can look at what the Japanese did with a grudging respect. From the 60s onwards they got it right on so many levels, especially with the technology and quality.

 

The Chinese though...........please stop apologising for them.

[foxy lady]

 

Japan is not the same as China though is it. It's a liberal, democratic, low polluting advanced manufacturing economy with mature industrial relations, high wages and excellent workers rights.

 

You can look at what the Japanese did with a grudging respect. From the 60s onwards they got it right on so many levels, especially with the technology and quality.

 

The Chinese though...........please stop apologising for them.

 

I'm not apologising for the Chinese. Nor the Japanese. The Japanese don't send many cars here any more. There are however quite a lot arriving from the low wage high polution economies around the world.

 

Perhaps if you pulled back from trying to make political points out of everything you might actually take time out to analyse the situation. That is that we cannot make steel as cheaply as other nations, and if you actually looked at my posts you would see how many times I mention how little steel we buy from China and how much we buy from Europe.

 

---------- Post added 03-04-2016 at 13:22 ----------

 

Peter Hitchens nails it today in the Mail. The Thatcherite con and its terrible legacy:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3520932/PETER-HITCHENS-Privatisation-Free-trade-Shares-great-ruined-Britain.html

 

The Tories are always happy when the Corbynites try to refight the elections of the 1980s. Thatcher won 3 elections because the voters prefered her policies to the leftwing lunatics who were in charge of the Labour Party at the time. So its always good to see those lunatics are still alive and active around South Yorkshire. Burning effigies and waving banners. They are a great warning to the voters of Middle England.

I found it quite amusing to hear that Arthur Scargill's Socialist Labour still hasn't ever had a councillor win an election. The Loony party currently have 7. Now that's a mountain to climb. :hihi:

Edited April 3, 2016 by foxy lady

[El Cid]

That is that we cannot make steel as cheaply as other nations, and if you actually looked at my posts you would see how many times I mention how little steel we buy from China and how much we buy from Europe.

 

It may be true that we cannot compete with other countries that pay their worker 50p an hour; but we should be able to compete with any other EU country, we are all under the same EU rules.