Eleven million tax avoiding documents..

[El Cid]

I'm not a kipper.

Obviously a flat tax is fairer, simpler and easier to collect and implement, but there are a few advantages to our progressive system. The poor are subsidised by the wealthier and that gives those who earn more a warm and rosy glow that they are supporting the poor and the lower earners.

 

Do you believe the super rich should pay a lower rate of tax than those below them.

Do you accept that allowing tax avoidance makes the super riches' percentage of tax paid, lower than the bog standard rich?

[RonJeremy]

Do you believe the super rich should pay a lower rate of tax than those below them.

Do you accept that allowing tax avoidance makes the super riches' percentage of tax paid, lower than the bog standard rich?

 

The super rich are different. It's annoying, but the can just go where they want. They can domicile where they like. There's nothing we can do. However, they probably still create more wealth and pay more tax in this country that a family of serial benefit recipients.

[petemcewan]

"It is perfectly acceptable for the Government to make avoidance impracticable, provided that it does not at the same time attack ordinary tax planning".

 

"Majority of British adults say tax avoidance is 'morally wrong'

New research has revealed that 56% of British adults believe that tax avoidance by multinational companies is morally wrong - and half of people think it should be made illegal.

Majority of British adults say tax avoidance is 'morally wrong'

The survey of attitudes to tax avoidance was commissioned by Christian Aid to coincide with the start of the Tax Justice Bus Tour. It shows public support for Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne’s view that such practices are ‘morally repugnant’. However, many of the 2,026 people questioned in the survey by ComRes don’t think these strong words are being matched with Government action.

 

Only four per cent of those polled thought tax avoidance by multinational corporations (MNCs) was ‘morally justifiable’, and only four per cent described such practices as ‘fair’.

 

Three quarters (74%) felt that David Cameron should be demanding international action to tackle tax evasion and avoidance, yet just two in five respondents to the survey (38%) believe the Government is genuine in their desire to combat tax avoidance.

 

There was also a clear view that companies should be more transparent, as 81 per cent of those polled believed MNCs' accounts should be more transparent and publicly available. Some 79 per cent of people polled said it was too easy for MNCs in the UK to avoid paying tax.

 

Of those opposed to tax avoidance (those who think it is either immoral, should be illegal or is unfair), 67 per cent said one of their main concerns was that tax avoidance meant there was less money for governments to spend on public services, 33 per cent said that it meant governments had less money to tackle poverty, 28 per cent said that it damaged the reputation of all multinationals, and 25 per cent were concerned that it made developing countries more reliant on aid.

 

Some 75 per cent of people polled said MNCs enjoyed more lenient treatment from the tax collector than individuals received, and two thirds (65%) believed closing legal tax loopholes should be a greater international development priority for the British Government than funding infrastructure in developing countries.

 

The ComRes poll marks the launch of the Tax Justice Bus Tour of the UK and Ireland on 24 August, organised by both Christian Aid and Church Action on Poverty, to highlight the damage that tax abuse causes to people in poverty, both in the UK and in the developing world.

 

Each year, tax dodging in the UK deprives the government of £35 billion - more than enough to cover the £30 billion being cut from the vital public services which people in poverty depend upon.

 

Christian Aid research estimates that tax dodging by some unscrupulous multinational companies costs developing countries at least $160 billion a year, far more than the total global aid budget – money which could go on health and education.

 

Find out more about the Tax Justice Bus

Find out more about our campaign for Fair Taxes ". (Source. www. Church Poverty Action. org .uk )

 

Make them pay their damn taxes.

Edited April 10, 2016 by petemcewan

[the_bloke]

Do you believe the super rich should pay a lower rate of tax than those below them.

Do you accept that allowing tax avoidance makes the super riches' percentage of tax paid, lower than the bog standard rich?

 

Define rich.

 

Listening to some people on SF, rich people are those who don't live in council houses, or people who don't claim tax credits. Give us an income when you would define someone as being 'rich'.

 

You don't need to be 'rich' to have an accountant who can push your income through legal tax avoidance schemes. Ask any sole trader, small business owner or self employed contractor.

[Cyclone]

Should it ever be the case that having more results in paying less tax?

[RonJeremy]

Should it ever be the case that having more results in paying less tax?

 

Can't see where that happens?

[JFKvsNixon]

I don't think that it will ever be possible to close all the tax loopholes, and in many cases it wouldn't be desirable because some of them can encourage investment and charitable donations.

 

So what I would do is make peoples tax returns a matter of public record, then at least there could be a degree of accountability with peoples tax affairs. If someone wants to exploit every loophole going then they can do with full public knowledge.

[foxy lady]

"It is perfectly acceptable for the Government to make avoidance impracticable, provided that it does not at the same time attack ordinary tax planning".

 

"Majority of British adults say tax avoidance is 'morally wrong'

New research has revealed that 56% of British adults believe that tax avoidance by multinational companies is morally wrong - and half of people think it should be made illegal.

Majority of British adults say tax avoidance is 'morally wrong'

The survey of attitudes to tax avoidance was commissioned by Christian Aid to coincide with the start of the Tax Justice Bus Tour. It shows public support for Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne’s view that such practices are ‘morally repugnant’. However, many of the 2,026 people questioned in the survey by ComRes don’t think these strong words are being matched with Government action.

 

Only four per cent of those polled thought tax avoidance by multinational corporations (MNCs) was ‘morally justifiable’, and only four per cent described such practices as ‘fair’.

 

Three quarters (74%) felt that David Cameron should be demanding international action to tackle tax evasion and avoidance, yet just two in five respondents to the survey (38%) believe the Government is genuine in their desire to combat tax avoidance.

 

There was also a clear view that companies should be more transparent, as 81 per cent of those polled believed MNCs' accounts should be more transparent and publicly available. Some 79 per cent of people polled said it was too easy for MNCs in the UK to avoid paying tax.

 

Of those opposed to tax avoidance (those who think it is either immoral, should be illegal or is unfair), 67 per cent said one of their main concerns was that tax avoidance meant there was less money for governments to spend on public services, 33 per cent said that it meant governments had less money to tackle poverty, 28 per cent said that it damaged the reputation of all multinationals, and 25 per cent were concerned that it made developing countries more reliant on aid.

 

Some 75 per cent of people polled said MNCs enjoyed more lenient treatment from the tax collector than individuals received, and two thirds (65%) believed closing legal tax loopholes should be a greater international development priority for the British Government than funding infrastructure in developing countries.

 

The ComRes poll marks the launch of the Tax Justice Bus Tour of the UK and Ireland on 24 August, organised by both Christian Aid and Church Action on Poverty, to highlight the damage that tax abuse causes to people in poverty, both in the UK and in the developing world.

 

Each year, tax dodging in the UK deprives the government of £35 billion - more than enough to cover the £30 billion being cut from the vital public services which people in poverty depend upon.

 

Christian Aid research estimates that tax dodging by some unscrupulous multinational companies costs developing countries at least $160 billion a year, far more than the total global aid budget – money which could go on health and education.

 

Find out more about the Tax Justice Bus

Find out more about our campaign for Fair Taxes ". (Source. www. Church Poverty Action. org .uk )

 

Make them pay their damn taxes.

 

But then doing it is a different matter.

 

So.. "I know" someone who had a small manufacturing business in the UK. When the Balkan countries joined the EU they offered huge incentives for businesses to move out there. Low pay rates, guaranteed no strikes, and zero taxation for 10 years.

So the business is now in a former Yugoslav republic manufacturing goods and paying zero tax. So far so good.

So let's say they make a bike for £20. They sell that bike to a UK retailer for £30 and the UK retailer sells it for £100.

The maufacturer makes £10 on which no tax is due.The UK retailer makes £70 profit on which they pay UK tax.

 

But then the chap making the bikes in Croatia decides to come home to the UK to sell his bikes direct to the public. So he reopens his old business and imports bikes from his overseas factory and sells the bikes here at £95 each . How much should he charge the UK business for the bikes he sells to them?

Edited April 10, 2016 by foxy lady

[petemcewan]

Foxy Lady,

 

We could go round and round and round with all kinds of scenarios. It's the responsibility of the government and its agencies of the State ,to ensure that all tax that is due is collected.It is up to the government to close aggressive tax avoidance and the exploitation of tax loopholes.

Personally, I regard agressive tax avoidance as morally wrong-like some other people do.

If you want an expert answer to your scenario , you'll have to contact HMRC (or you might like to answer it yourself ).

 

I really do wish I had a scheme in mind that ,"make them pay their damn taxes", would work. But, then I can fall back on the democratically elected government to tackle that problem.

Edited April 10, 2016 by petemcewan

[unbeliever]

I'm not a kipper.

Obviously a flat tax is fairer, simpler and easier to collect and implement, but there are a few advantages to our progressive system. The poor are subsidised by the wealthier and that gives those who earn more a warm and rosy glow that they are supporting the poor and the lower earners.

 

Depends.

 

If we're talking about a flat tax rate, say 20%, the rich are still subsidising the poor. A rich person making £1million pays £200k and a poor person making £10k pays £2k. The rich person is therefore paying their "share", plus the share of 99 other people. I think the rich person would still be entitled to a rosy glow.

 

If we're talking about a simple tax (like the TV license or the old poll tax) where everybody tax £3k no matter what, then that's a different matter.

 

The reality of the system we have is that rich people pay about 50% of their income, and poor people pay less than nothing.

With modern tax credits etc, the poor person making £10k receives something like £5k (depending on dependents etc) so that's -50%.

 

So are we to accept that because the rich person manages to get their total tax burden down from 50% to 45% using some scheme or other, that we'd be better off without them? Sounds mad as a bag of ferrets.

 

Don't get me wrong. I think the rich should pay more. But let's be clear on the language. Nobody is advocating a system where the rich don't pay more. A person making £1million is always going to be paying hundreds of thousands and a poor person making £10k is going to be paying ± a few hundred.

 

I would appeal to the "tax the rich" posters to be clear in their language. Otherwise I'm going to start demanding clarification every time a post appears which confuses "more" and "less" with "more as a percentage" and "less as a percentage" or with "more than some hypothetical" and "less than some hypothetical".

 

---------- Post added 10-04-2016 at 12:55 ----------

 

"It is perfectly acceptable for the Government to make avoidance impracticable, provided that it does not at the same time attack ordinary tax planning".

 

"Majority of British adults say tax avoidance is 'morally wrong'

New research has revealed that 56% of British adults believe that tax avoidance by multinational companies is morally wrong - and half of people think it should be made illegal.

Majority of British adults say tax avoidance is 'morally wrong'

The survey of attitudes to tax avoidance was commissioned by Christian Aid to coincide with the start of the Tax Justice Bus Tour. It shows public support for Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne’s view that such practices are ‘morally repugnant’. However, many of the 2,026 people questioned in the survey by ComRes don’t think these strong words are being matched with Government action.

 

Only four per cent of those polled thought tax avoidance by multinational corporations (MNCs) was ‘morally justifiable’, and only four per cent described such practices as ‘fair’.

 

Three quarters (74%) felt that David Cameron should be demanding international action to tackle tax evasion and avoidance, yet just two in five respondents to the survey (38%) believe the Government is genuine in their desire to combat tax avoidance.

 

There was also a clear view that companies should be more transparent, as 81 per cent of those polled believed MNCs' accounts should be more transparent and publicly available. Some 79 per cent of people polled said it was too easy for MNCs in the UK to avoid paying tax.

 

Of those opposed to tax avoidance (those who think it is either immoral, should be illegal or is unfair), 67 per cent said one of their main concerns was that tax avoidance meant there was less money for governments to spend on public services, 33 per cent said that it meant governments had less money to tackle poverty, 28 per cent said that it damaged the reputation of all multinationals, and 25 per cent were concerned that it made developing countries more reliant on aid.

 

Some 75 per cent of people polled said MNCs enjoyed more lenient treatment from the tax collector than individuals received, and two thirds (65%) believed closing legal tax loopholes should be a greater international development priority for the British Government than funding infrastructure in developing countries.

 

The ComRes poll marks the launch of the Tax Justice Bus Tour of the UK and Ireland on 24 August, organised by both Christian Aid and Church Action on Poverty, to highlight the damage that tax abuse causes to people in poverty, both in the UK and in the developing world.

 

Each year, tax dodging in the UK deprives the government of £35 billion - more than enough to cover the £30 billion being cut from the vital public services which people in poverty depend upon.

 

Christian Aid research estimates that tax dodging by some unscrupulous multinational companies costs developing countries at least $160 billion a year, far more than the total global aid budget – money which could go on health and education.

 

Find out more about the Tax Justice Bus

Find out more about our campaign for Fair Taxes ". (Source. www. Church Poverty Action. org .uk )

 

Make them pay their damn taxes.

 

 

So are the churches going to start paying their taxes now?