White British Pupils lagging behind ethnic minority

[*_ash_*]

And it's a shame that the debate has been hijacked by those who seek to use the disadvantage of some white children

 

... just to be clear, do you include me in that?

 

 

 

 

(as this quotes Sibon's post to me)

[Mister M]

... just to be clear, do you include me in that?

 

 

 

 

(as this quotes Sibon's post to me)

 

No I wasn't including you in that, as you didn't say the relative poor performance of some children was because more attention was being given to children from ethnic minorities.

[*_ash_*]

No I wasn't including you in that, as you didn't say the relative poor performance of some children was because more attention was being given to children from ethnic minorities.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't sure.

[Guest sibon]

Back again as I said

 

Actually there isn't much more to add. I made some points, mainly about parents here (perhaps lower end of the intelligence spectrum) being complacent with the education system doing the job for them, and that's still what I think. And I made another point about people (in particular from places with poor education standards) will be more likely be 'encouraging' of their children's study. Which I also think is true.

 

 

In my experience, parental support is vital. Parent + Teacher usually manages to push the kid in the right direction.

 

Parent + child has the opposite effect.

 

 

 

 

I would guess that class sizes probably feature in this mixture too.

 

Absolutely.

 

There is a reason why independent schools have smaller class sizes than state schools.

[milquetoast1]

I note that nobody has commented on my last post, or even read the report or understood its fundamental flaws.

 

Don't worry, just continue to believe what you want to believe and discuss untruths, which is undoubtedly what the report writers and media that lapped it up want you all to do.

[*_ash_*]

In my experience, parental support is vital. Parent + Teacher usually manages to push the kid in the right direction.

 

Parent + child has the opposite effect.

 

Yes, I hear you.

 

My point (or gripe, if there is one) is at this bit in bold...

 

I think it needs the word 'good' at the beginning.

 

How do you deal with poor parenting?

 

(or to put less formally, if you have a child not doing as well as you know they can, and at parents evening, you meet them, and they are obviously wasters)

 

Surely your skills and efforts Sibon, and the child's future educational prospects, are no longer proportional?

 

 

 

Absolutely.

 

There is a reason why independent schools have smaller class sizes than state schools.

 

Yes, obviously. If I were to pay £10k a year for my child, I'd take the general size of the classes into consideration in my school choice, as well as the teachers when meeting them.

 

---------- Post added 06-04-2016 at 23:47 ----------

 

I note that nobody has commented on my last post

 

To exclude myself from this milque, I only quoted Mister after skim reading, and then Sibon quoted me, so I've only read those ones

[Margarita Ma]

Ironically, you embody the anti-learning sentiment being discussed, since you've dealt solely with supposition and generalising, regardless of whether it's true or not. People who are pro-education and learning tend to want a bit more than that to go on.

 

---------- Post added 05-04-2016 at 20:38 ----------

 

 

I'm not entirely sure what your point is. I think language gives clues about culture, and while it's clearly not the case that every white British child or white British boy is anti-learning, I think a lot are. This is my culture I'm talking about by the way; I went to a 99% white school with kids from a real mix of social backgrounds, middle class, working class, quite a lot of farm kids. There was a general anti-learning sentiment throughout the pupil population, it was a minority who bucked it. It would be nice to think that it's changed radically from the 1970s and 80s, but the evidence suggests not.

 

Where that attitude comes from is another matter; defining where 'culture' comes from is very difficult. Certainly it's not just white working class culture that we are talking about here. After all, the Labour movement had a strong emphasis on self-education and 'bettering' oneself. Until the Right demolished it.

 

My point is this, as a whole when Children of White British children arrive at school they are ahead of other ethnicities in the measurement method = less progress to be measured in White British than in other ethnicities. This skews the study results and gives the impression that White British children are less able to learn because they are starting from a position of supposed advantage. Note the word supposed.

Ethnic Minority Children who do not have the English language skills required to learn the curriculum are given special attention to bring those language skills in line with those of the more advanced skills of White British Children. This is measured as progress. So skewing the measurement at an early stage.

White working class/ unemployed family class children do not receive special attention to bring up their skills to the more advanced levels of children from families of professional or skilled workers. They start from a point of double disadvantage because their parents are likely to have low self esteem and fewer skills in teaching children reading and writing skills as well as the hangups the education system left them with. Their progress will be slower because they probably do not get the additional help out of school that their peers get( Parents less able to help their children themselves and no spare money because of low pay or only benefits income). In addition while racism has status in law, is frowned on and racist language is not tolerated when it is encountered and reported: attitudes toward low skilled parents and language derogatory of low skilled and unemployed people is not sanctioned. Indeed since the conservatives have been in power there has been an increase in the attitude that condemns unemployed and low skilled people to the proverbial scrapheap and blames them for their own position while reducing through cutbacks any chance they might have of improving their education and lot in life. Children in families of this sort are not below normal in intelligence but they may be below the norm of resources.

[Bob Arctor]

My point is this, as a whole when Children of White British children arrive at school they are ahead of other ethnicities in the measurement method = less progress to be measured in White British than in other ethnicities. This skews the study results and gives the impression that White British children are less able to learn because they are starting from a position of supposed advantage. Note the word supposed.

Ethnic Minority Children who do not have the English language skills required to learn the curriculum are given special attention to bring those language skills in line with those of the more advanced skills of White British Children. This is measured as progress. So skewing the measurement at an early stage.

White working class/ unemployed family class children do not receive special attention to bring up their skills to the more advanced levels of children from families of professional or skilled workers. They start from a point of double disadvantage because their parents are likely to have low self esteem and fewer skills in teaching children reading and writing skills as well as the hangups the education system left them with. Their progress will be slower because they probably do not get the additional help out of school that their peers get( Parents less able to help their children themselves and no spare money because of low pay or only benefits income). In addition while racism has status in law, is frowned on and racist language is not tolerated when it is encountered and reported: attitudes toward low skilled parents and language derogatory of low skilled and unemployed people is not sanctioned. Indeed since the conservatives have been in power there has been an increase in the attitude that condemns unemployed and low skilled people to the proverbial scrapheap and blames them for their own position while reducing through cutbacks any chance they might have of improving their education and lot in life. Children in families of this sort are not below normal in intelligence but they may be below the norm of resources.

 

Ah, I think you were thinking I was commenting specifically on white working class attitudes. I wasn't, I was commenting on a general cultural attitude common among all white Britons, as I see it.

[ANGELFIRE1]

White British kids have been struggling for a long time now, I've said it on a few threads on here although I've always been shouted down as wrong, my reason is pretty simple and obvious, teachers and classroom assistants are too busy with the kids that don't speak English very well.

 

I was thinking along the same lines, I might have posted it on here as well, but I'm not sure, can't remember.

 

Angel1.

[ukdobby]

Looking at the antics of some parents and their offspring why am I not surprised with the thread title.