UK loses £8bn annually through its contribution to Europe-John Caudwel

[Berberis]

The credibility of someone's company that was one of the biggest collapses on the high street in recent years is non existent.

 

A quote from a Nobel economist or a governor of a central bank would be more significant.

 

The credibility of his company has no bearing on the validity of his claim. If he was saying we should stay in or ou for business reasons then I would be with you, but he is not, he is making a claim that is easily checked and I suspect the reason no one has disputed i is because it's true.

 

Cards on the table, I'm a supporter of the EU, but by virtue of its bureaucracy, if the money we put in was redistributed back to the countries, we would all receive less.

 

Someone needs to calculate the actual amount the UK has received over the years from the EU and see how it adds up. The problem is, the EU accounts have never been signed off, so this information is not complete. If you ran a company in the UK like this, you would be fined to oblivion.

[L00b]

The credibility of his company has no bearing on the validity of his claim. If he was saying we should stay in or ou for business reasons then I would be with you, but he is not, he is making a claim that is easily checked and I suspect the reason no one has disputed i is because it's true.

So what if it's true?

 

Cards on the table, I'm a supporter of the EU, but by virtue of its bureaucracy, if the money we put in was redistributed back to the countries, we would all receive less.

 

Someone needs to calculate the actual amount the UK has received over the years from the EU and see how it adds up.

The UK cannot get as much financially out of the EU as it puts in, it is one the best-performing EU member states and therefore a net contributor to it.

 

The logic and situation is the exact same as in any other contributive model, wherein the fewer wealthier types subsidise the more numerous poorer types, and the stable club/society in which they both exist rolls on.

 

Cauldwell and the Brexiters' argument here boils down to "we want out because we pay in more than we get out", completely missing the very point of the EU, wherein the best which each member state gets out is not only, or only ever, expressed in €s. A surprisingly-shallow argument from Cauldwell, considering his rep as (allegedly) the "UK's biggest taxpayer".

Edited April 6, 2016 by L00b

[Berberis]

The UK cannot get as much financially out of the EU as it puts in, it is one the best-performing EU member states and therefore a net contributor to it.

 

The logic and situation is the exact same as in any other contributive model, wherein the fewer wealthier types subsidise the more numerous poorer types, and the stable club/society in which they both exist rolls on.

 

Cauldwell and the Brexiters' argument here boils down to "we want out because we pay in more than we get out", completely missing the very point of the EU, wherein the best which each member state gets out is not only, or only ever, expressed in €s. A surprisingly-shallow argument from Cauldwell, considering his rep as (allegedly) the "UK's biggest taxpayer".

 

What we need to know is, how much have we paid in and how much do we get out and then how does this compare to our contemporaries such as France and Germany. I don't think anyone in the UK begrudges tge UK being a net contributor, but if we are getting less out than the likes of Germany or France, then people will be upset.

[L00b]

What we need to know is, how much have we paid in and how much do we get out and then how does this compare to our contemporaries such as France and Germany.

In terms of paying in, the UK has been 4th behind France, Germany and Italy for a long time, and has always trailed France and Germany. Pretty much in keeping with the countries' respective sizes and populations, but actually less than these countries in proportion, when you take the UK's rebate into account. I know it's Wiki, but it's corroborated by every other source I've seen, including official ones.

 

In terms of getting EU investments, for objective results, you'd need to go through the EU budgetary expenses (7 main headers are: growth and jobs competitivity; growth and jobs cohesion; natural resources management and preserving; freedom, security and justice; EU citizenship; EU global partnerships; admin) and extract the respective share of each, for each of these countries (UK, DE, FR, IT).

 

If you want precise numbers, knock yourself out

 

Without bothering (and relying instead on common wisdom), I'm guessing the UK is going to be somewhere behind France, Germany and Italy

 

EDIT - playing with this resource, then at least for EU funds directly administered by the EU Commission, turns out I was wrong: in 2014 (latest set available), the UK was getting more funding (€3.43bn) than Germany (€3.41bn), France (€3.01bn) and Italy (€2.77bn). Who knew!

Edited April 6, 2016 by L00b

[tzijlstra]

In terms of paying in, the UK has been 4th behind France, Germany and Italy for a long, long time. I know it's Wiki, but it's corroborated by every other source I've seen, including official ones.

 

In terms of getting EU investments, for objective results, you'd need to go through the EU budgetary expenses (7 main headers are: growth and jobs competitivity; growth and jobs cohesion; natural resources management and preserving; freedom, security and justice; EU citizenship; EU global partnerships; admin) and extract the respective share of each, for each of these countries (UK, DE, FR, IT).

 

If you want precise numbers, knock yourself out

 

Without bothering (and relying instead on common wisdom), I'm guessing the UK is going to be somewhere behind France, Germany and Italy

 

This is correct, compared to peers the UK pays considerably less. When broken down to a per capita ratio it is even more stark.

[Berberis]

In terms of paying in, the UK has been 4th behind France, Germany and Italy for a long time, and has always trailed France and Germany. Pretty much in keeping with the countries' respective sizes and populations, but actually less than these countries in proportion, when you take the UK's rebate into account. I know it's Wiki, but it's corroborated by every other source I've seen, including official ones.

 

In terms of getting EU investments, for objective results, you'd need to go through the EU budgetary expenses (7 main headers are: growth and jobs competitivity; growth and jobs cohesion; natural resources management and preserving; freedom, security and justice; EU citizenship; EU global partnerships; admin) and extract the respective share of each, for each of these countries (UK, DE, FR, IT).

 

If you want precise numbers, knock yourself out

 

Without bothering (and relying instead on common wisdom), I'm guessing the UK is going to be somewhere behind France, Germany and Italy

 

EDIT - playing with this resource, then at least for EU funds directly administered by the EU Commission, turns out I was wrong: in 2014 (latest set available), the UK was getting more funding (€3.43bn) than Germany (€3.41bn), France (€3.01bn) and Italy (€2.77bn). Who knew!

 

Im unsure what the Euro billion is (1000 million or 100 million) so my crude calculations could well be off, but on the face of it, the UK does contribute approx 1/8th less than the likes of Germany, but the inward contributions is what would shed light on how the UK fairs compared. The amount contributed is less important if the Uk received 60% back while other countries received more. However this number is a little harder to find.

 

EDIT: Your tool makes it clear the Euro Billion is the correct format unlike the US billion which seems to be making its way into UK calculations these days.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Berberis

[L00b]

Im unsure what the Euro billion is (1000 million or 100 million)

A billion is always a billion, irrespective of the unit being measured (money or matchsticks or <...>). It's a thousand millions.

 

So the UK contribution for 2011 in the linked Wiki table was £12.9bn, representing:

• 60.8 % of the German contribution to the EU budget
  
• 67% of the French contribution to the EU budget
  
• 88.9% of the Italian contribution to the EU budget
  
• 11.9 % of the total contribution to the EU budget by all the EU member states

Simples.

Edited April 6, 2016 by L00b

[Berberis]

With the above in mind, below are my crude numbers on how much each person in their respective country contributes to the EU per year.

 

UK €201.53

GER €262.84

FR €288.90

ITL €242.65

 

---------- Post added 06-04-2016 at 11:21 ----------

 

A billion is always a billion, irrespective of the unit being measured (money or matchsticks or <...>).

 

It's a thousand millions.

 

It wasn't always this and this is the cause of my confusion.

 

The UK billion was a million million, while the US billion is a thousand billion. This is what confused me but it does seem we have adopted the US version officially now.

 

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/words/how-many-is-a-billion

[L00b]

With the above in mind, below are my crude numbers on how much each person in their respective country contributes to the EU per year.

 

UK €201.53

GER €262.84

FR €288.90

ITL €242.65

I wouldn't want to appear abrupt, but...do you have a point to make?

[tzijlstra]

but the inward contributions is what would shed light on how the UK fairs compared.

 

One word: Banking.