Government to spend Nine million on leaflets

[PeteMorris]

Just so I can understand your point, what makes you believe that Europe is trying to asset strip the UK? The UK is a vital part of the EU's economy and without it the EU would be an awful lot weaker.

 

I didn't say the EU wanted to asset strip the UK...It was just an example of what big business 'might' do.

 

I personally don't think for one moment the UK would be weaker outside of the UK. Why would 'you' think that?

 

If we're soooo 'vital' to the EU economy, how come we had such a hard time negotiating Dave's dodgy deal? (which I believe is worthless)

 

---------- Post added 14-04-2016 at 15:20 ----------

 

When you talk about the EU making decisions, you are talking about us as well, we are part of that process.

 

Couldn't your complaints about the EU also be directed against any other big organisation, or even the UK?

 

Yes we're part of the process...One voice amongst 28 others! Don't you see? That's the point. It's too big. What similarities in culture, language or lifestyle do we have to 'say' Rumania?

[JFKvsNixon]

I didn't say the EU wanted to asset strip the UK...It was just an example of what big business 'might' do.

 

I personally don't think for one moment the UK would be weaker outside of the UK. Why would 'you' think that?

 

If we're soooo 'vital' to the EU economy, how come we had such a hard time negotiating Dave's dodgy deal? (which I believe is worthless)

 

Did we really have a hard time negotiating that deal? After all the negotiations only went on for a few days, compared to the negotiations to join the common market which took 18 moths or so.

 

I believe the main reason as to why the UK doesn't punch it's weight in Europe is due to the UK governments over the years choosing to place the UK on the fringes of Europe.

Edited April 14, 2016 by JFKvsNixon

[PeteMorris]

Did we really have a hard time negotiating that deal? After all the negotiations only went on for a few days, compared to the negotiations to join the common market which took 18 moths or so.

 

I believe the main reason as to why the UK doesn't punch it's weight in Europe is due to the UK governments over the years closing to place the UK on the fringes of Europe.

 

So you'd rather be much like Germany?...

 

No thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes we did have a hard time negotiating...Remember he came back with bugger all. If it was 'that' good, why isn't he crowing about it now?...Best forgotten eh?

[JFKvsNixon]

Yes we're part of the process...One voice amongst 28 others! Don't you see? That's the point. It's too big. What similarities in culture, language or lifestyle do we have to 'say' Rumania?

 

As the second biggest economy in the EU, we have an awful lot more influence than one voice amongst 28 others.

 

---------- Post added 14-04-2016 at 15:27 ----------

 

So you'd rather be much like Germany?...

 

No thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What makes you believe that???????

 

---------- Post added 14-04-2016 at 15:28 ----------

 

Yes we did have a hard time negotiating...Remember he came back with bugger all. If it was 'that' good, why isn't he crowing about it now?...Best forgotten eh?

 

The truth is that if the PM came back with unicorns for each and every one of us you'd not believe that he'd negotiated a good deal.

[truman]

I don't like paying taxes, what do I get back for our 25K a year (or however much it is, probably more) contribution to the UK? A crappy road surface and the pleasure of praying the NHS has a space for me if I need a new knee replacement so I can keep working.

 

.

 

Taxes aren't optional..membership of the EU is..

 

---------- Post added 14-04-2016 at 15:32 ----------

 

 

The truth is that if the PM came back with unicorns for each and every one of us you'd not believe that he'd negotiated a good deal.

 

I think unicorns are overrated...

[PeteMorris]

As the second biggest economy in the EU, we have an awful lot more influence than one voice amongst 28 others.

 

You really believe that?...Practically anyone can veto anything. That's why things take so long. It's ridiculous.

 

What makes you believe that???????

 

Think about it. For starters we'd have an open door policy, and be part of shengen...

 

The truth is that if the PM came back with unicorns for each and every one of us you'd not believe that he'd negotiated a good deal.

 

Do you believe he has?...Silly question I suppose, cos you're obviously 'sold' upon the EU.

[tzijlstra]

What does the cost of WW2 have to do with it? It's not a stupid question..just one that you can't answer..it's your chance to make the EU look good .. I'm still undecided so now's your chance to gain a convert..

 

You ask a question that is impossible to answer, you can't put a monetary value to an intrinsic value like that. So let's go to your next reply which I handily spotted pop up just now:

 

Taxes aren't optional..membership of the EU is..

 

Membership might be, but being part of the free trade agreement isn't (trust me on this, it really isn't. You won't hear a single Brexit campaigner argue to leave the free trade agreement except for maybe a Farage.

 

So what Brexit campaigners are arguing is - we pay more to Europe than they pay us, but we can have a free trade agreement, so let's leave and have the benefits and not the downsides.

 

That isn't how it works. If the UK voted to leave and opted into a free trade agreement styled after Norway, Switzerland or any other relatively wealthy EEA member, it would still contribute to the EU, Norway contributes far more per capita to the EU than the UK does. It is possible that the per capita payment will go up for the UK because it will lose the negotiated 'Thatcher' discount although I expect the EU to not demand such.

 

Other clauses of such an agreement would include free movement of people and goods, just as it is now, and an obligation for UK law to remain compatible with EU law.

 

The big difference would be this: The UK wouldn't have any say in the EU at all.

 

Don't be fooled by the 'we only have 3,5% say' nonsense. The EU Council sets the overall political direction of the EU and in that context the Prime Minister of the UK has a lot of sway, far more than the Luxemburgian prime minister for example. The reason for this is that the UK government has friends in different political streams in the EU depending equal philosophies (market liberal) and standards of living. Currently the UK are good buddies with France, the Netherlands, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Finland and Luxemburg whilst having enough in common with Poland, Spain, Portugal and Italy to make things happen.

 

The fact that we only hear about the PM being turned down should not hold sway, that is largely down to his weakness to the EU coming from a divisive Tory party, other EU leaders know this and will exploit that weakness, that is politics.

 

People forget quite easily that the EU response to the banking crisis was largely formed by Gordon Brown and some excellent political work he did, more recently the UK has influenced the EU steel-dilemma.

 

All that influence will disappear with a Brexit, but it is very unlikely that any of the perceived negatives will.

[JFKvsNixon]

You really believe that?...Practically anyone can veto anything. That's why things take so long. It's ridiculous.

 

Sorry for asking a question, again I'm trying to understand what you've been saying. You say that practically anyone can veto anything, after talking about how the EU's decisions aren't being made in the UK's best interest. Doesn't that suggest that you should be blaming out government for not vetoing the decisions against our interest rather than the existence of the EU itself.

 

 

 

Think about it. For starters we'd have an open door policy, and be part of shengen...

 

We're not part of Schengen, so it's a moot point.

 

 

Do you believe he has?...Silly question I suppose, cos you're obviously 'sold' upon the EU.

 

Believe it or not, me being sold on the EU is based purely upon what I believe is in the best interests of our country.

[tzijlstra]

You really believe that?...Practically anyone can veto anything. That's why things take so long. It's ridiculous.

 

Again showing ignorance re. how the EU works. Things don't take much longer than they do here, nor can 'anyone veto anything'. That is true when it comes to treaty-changes, which should be balanced to favour all EU member-states, but is certainly not true for the majority of law passing through the EU.

 

Think about it. For starters we'd have an open door policy, and be part of shengen...

 

 

Do you believe he has?...Silly question I suppose, cos you're obviously 'sold' upon the EU.

 

No he didn't get a good deal, he got the deal he was going to get after overplaying all his hands. The PM is not a very good politician, but he seems to get the affection of the people so we are stuck with him.

[PeteMorris]

People forget quite easily that the EU response to the banking crisis was largely formed by Gordon Brown and some excellent political work he did, more recently the UK has influenced the EU steel-dilemma.

 

All that influence will disappear with a Brexit, but it is very unlikely that any of the perceived negatives will.

 

Sorry to wipe the rest of your post, but I'm intrigued. Being in the steel industry. How has the the UK influenced the steel dilemma? To my knowledge the Germans for instance subsidise their steel makers energy costs, massively. How can that possibly help the UK?

 

---------- Post added 14-04-2016 at 16:05 ----------

 

Sorry for asking a question, again I'm trying to understand what you've been saying. You say that practically anyone can veto anything, after talking about how the EU's decisions aren't being made in the UK's best interest. Doesn't that suggest that you should be blaming out government for not vetoing the decisions against our interest rather than the existence of the EU itself.

 

Then nobody would ever agree anything!..Again..that's the point.

 

 

We're not part of Schengen, so it's a moot point.

 

Well if we held the same views as Germany, we would be...

 

 

Believe it or not, me being sold on the EU is based purely upon what I believe is in the best interests of our country.

 

Good grief, a David Cameron quote!