Cyclone Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 5 hours ago, hobinfoot said: I believe DNA evidence goes so far beyond doubt that it's so far out of sight in proving a persons guilt or innocence. And what about someone caught in the act of murder ? DNA evidence can of course be planted, and it's not a perfect science even if human failure weren't taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, *_ash_* said: It's laws that make it expensive, at least in western societies. It's cheaper to give them (actual) life sentences. Which I have no problem with. Can't win an appeal when you're dead! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, tinfoilhat said: Which I have no problem with. Can't win an appeal when you're dead! In some instances the evidence is to damning. Michael Adebolago Who slaughtered Lee Rigby in broad daylight on a busy street is 100% guilty and therefore forfeits all rights of appeal. Edited February 28, 2019 by danot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, danot said: In some instances the evidence is to damning. Michael Adebolago Who slaughtered Lee Rigby in broad daylight on a busy street is 100% guilty and therefore forfeits all rights of appeal. Who decides when the legal process gets cut short? How can that power not be open to abuse... The law applies to everyone, it has to. And that includes having appeals and legal arguments even when there are multiple witnesses to a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cyclone said: Who decides when the legal process gets cut short? How can that power not be open to abuse... The law applies to everyone, it has to. And that includes having appeals and legal arguments even when there are multiple witnesses to a crime. May be, but in cases such as the murder of fusilier Lee Rigby, it's a blatantly unjustifiable waste of tax payers money that could be better spent elsewhere. He's not insane, he wasn't acting under the influence of drugs, he stated his reason for committing the murder. It's an open and shut case. The only abuse I see is tax payers money being abused by the judiciary system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 2 hours ago, danot said: In some instances the evidence is to damning. Michael Adebolago Who slaughtered Lee Rigby in broad daylight on a busy street is 100% guilty and therefore forfeits all rights of appeal. You're failing to understand the principles behind the law and to understand that the checks and balances, the various grounds to appeal sentences are essential. They exist to try and ensure that the criminal justice system is as fair as possible. You can't just suspend the rights for particular types of crime that you don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Just now, danot said: May be, but in cases such as the murder of fusilier Lee Rigby, it's a blatantly unjustifiable waste of tax payers money that could be better spent elsewhere. He's not insane, he wasn't acting under the influence of drugs, he stated his reason for committing the murder. It's an open and shut case. The only abuse I see is tax payers money being abused by the judiciary system. I don't think it's unjustifiable use of money any more than locking up anyone else who has deliberately taken a life. Loads of murderers. Are you suggesting we kill them all, or just the ones who commit high profile politically inflammatory murders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, danot said: May be, but in cases such as the murder of fusilier Lee Rigby, it's a blatantly unjustifiable waste of tax payers money that could be better spent elsewhere. He's not insane, he wasn't acting under the influence of drugs, he stated his reason for committing the murder. It's an open and shut case. The only abuse I see is tax payers money being abused by the judiciary system. They both made 1 appeal, not against their conviction but against the length of their sentences (45 years I think). It's entirely correct that they had access to the full legal process, and if the state were intending to kill them then it would be even more important that they did. And you didn't answer the question of who would decide when a case is "open and shut" and how can you ensure that such a power isn't abused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cyclone said: They both made 1 appeal, not against their conviction but against the length of their sentences (45 years I think). It's entirely correct that they had access to the full legal process, and if the state were intending to kill them then it would be even more important that they did. And you didn't answer the question of who would decide when a case is "open and shut" and how can you ensure that such a power isn't abused? Such cases alway reach an inevitable conclusion. The only question is how much it'll cost to reach it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 And you didn't answer the question of who would decide when a case is "open and shut" and how can you ensure that such a power isn't abused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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