Hillsborough Inquest Verdicts Returned

[teecee75]

Have you ever wondered why you would believe something without evidence?

 

 

 

'I don't know how all of the fans behaved' is an honest statement, nobody does, do they? What I do know is that all of the available evidence has been judged several times and they fans are always exhonerated.

 

You have still not provided any evidence to suggest those judgements are wrong yet you still cling to that position. Have you examined why you choose to believe something with no supporting evidence?

 

 

 

Nobody on this forum will have the courage to anwser these questions properly.

 

 

 

Pete, that is a strawman and you know it. Nobody has ever said the fans formed an orderly queue, nobody has ever claimed their behaviour was exemplary, orderly or even uniformly nice. What has been proven by reviewing the available evidence is that they did not cause or even contribute to the disaster.

 

If you do not want to believe the evidence or the findings of those that have adjudicated upon it do you have the courage to ask yourself why?

 

Why would anybody believe something for which there is no evidence?

 

Seems a good time to throw a bit of religion in here now then.

[HackyJacky]

It's clear that the South Yorkshire Police failed to do their jobs properly, and then lied to cover up their incompetency. Even though it was 27 years ago, those people should now be held accountable for their actions

 

However, the idea that the fans outside the ground had no influence on what happened is questionable in my opinion. For anyone who went to games back in the 70s and 80s they most likely saw fans who turned up without tickets, some drunk, some sober, who then tried to sneak/force their way into the ground. It was part and parcel of the game back then, especially for the bigger and more successful teams where tickets were harder to come by. I saw this with my own eyes on numerous occasions. Look at the 1986 FA Cup final for example:

 

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/ticketless-teenage-football-fan-desperate-to-see-match-news-footage/1B26058_0009

 

That was Liverpool v Everton but this behaviour was, in my experience, commonplace in that era amongst other teams. Evidence gathered in the original Taylor Report showed that Liverpool fans regularly turned up to games without tickets, but as I say this was not exclusive to them by any means, lots of teams' fans did the same thing. Reports from locals in Hillsborough on the day of the disaster also make for interesting reading

 

It's also not behaviour that stopped in 1989 either:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2314568/Liverpool-fans-stole-final-tickets.html

 

So the whitewash of Question 7 doesn't sit easy at all:

 

"Was there probably any behaviour on the part of football supporters which probably caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?

Jury’s answer: No"

 

However, justice has been done for those who lost loved ones in this awful disaster and that's the main thing to come out of this, despite reservations about what really happened outside the ground #JFT96

[SnailyBoy]

I know, the audacity of football fans wanting to get into the ground when the game had kicked off. Shocking!!

 

Delay kick off, problem solved!!!!! Who's fault is it that that didn't happen?

 

https://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/General-jury-questionnaire-FINAL-54004274_1.pdf

 

Page 22 - the club officials

[Hogg]

The Crown Prosecution Service will be deciding whether or not there is enough evidence to charge any police personnel involved. Let us hope this is done swiftly so that the bereaved families can finally put this behind them.

[Bob Arctor]

It's clear that the South Yorkshire Police failed to do their jobs properly, and then lied to cover up their incompetency. Even though it was 27 years ago, those people should now be held accountable for their actions

 

However, the idea that the fans outside the ground had no influence on what happened is questionable in my opinion. For anyone who went to games back in the 70s and 80s they most likely saw fans who turned up without tickets, some drunk, some sober, who then tried to sneak/force their way into the ground. It was part and parcel of the game back then, especially for the bigger and more successful teams where tickets were harder to come by. I saw this with my own eyes on numerous occasions. Look at the 1986 FA Cup final for example:

 

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/ticketless-teenage-football-fan-desperate-to-see-match-news-footage/1B26058_0009

 

That was Liverpool v Everton but this behaviour was, in my experience, commonplace in that era amongst other teams. Evidence gathered in the original Taylor Report showed that Liverpool fans regularly turned up to games without tickets, but as I say this was not exclusive to them by any means, lots of teams' fans did the same thing. Reports from locals in Hillsborough on the day of the disaster also make for interesting reading

 

It's also not behaviour that stopped in 1989 either:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2314568/Liverpool-fans-stole-final-tickets.html

 

So the whitewash of Question 7 doesn't sit easy at all:

 

"Was there probably any behaviour on the part of football supporters which probably caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles?

Jury’s answer: No"

 

However, justice has been done for those who lost loved ones in this awful disaster and that's the main thing to come out of this, despite reservations about what really happened outside the ground #JFT96

 

It is logical madness to say that because a certain behaviour was common among a group of people at the time that the same behaviour MUST have occurred at every game. Because what the people who continue to blame fans are saying is that it's impossible that fans behaved themselves at this game. So it must follow that the same behaviour occurred at every single game that season, a point of view that I think is untenable.

[Shef1985]

https://hillsboroughinquests.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/General-jury-questionnaire-FINAL-54004274_1.pdf

 

Page 22 - the club officials

 

If a senior police officer walked on the pitch and spoke to the ref the game wouldn't have been stopped??

 

An announcement over the PA saying why would have placated fans. I've been at gigs and people have been crushed at the front causing the band to stop-they explain why and everyone takes a step back. No reason to believe that this wouldn't have happened there.....but again, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[foxy lady]

I know, the audacity of football fans wanting to get into the ground when the game had kicked off. Shocking!!

 

Delay kick off, problem solved!!!!! Who's fault is it that that didn't happen?

 

Or those with tickets could have arranged to arrive on time. Problem solved.

If it was only folk who had tickets got into the ground why were there crushes inside. Did they sell too many tickets or were there folk inside who hadn't got one?

[hauxwell]

Amazon123 has effectively stated what I was thinking. Almost everyone has been blamed for this (even those in the ambulances, for crying out loud) except the group of people he specifies, this verdict was inevitable though as if it was the other way, we would have been heard years of calls for yet another inquest and more public funds spent on it.

 

It was a "perfect storm" and blame should have been apportioned on all sides. Unfortunately this verdict has been designed merely to keep people happy.

 

Yes I thoroughly agree with you.

[SnailyBoy]

If a senior police officer walked on the pitch and spoke to the ref the game wouldn't have been stopped??

 

An announcement over the PA saying why would have placated fans. I've been at gigs and people have been crushed at the front causing the band to stop-they explain why and everyone takes a step back. No reason to believe that this wouldn't have happened there.....but again, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

Exactly, just a few decisions could have changed the whole event.

 

The worst aspect for me (other that 96 deaths) is the cover up afterwards, coupled with the smear campagn. Evidence of which is still around today, even after the verdicts.

 

---------- Post added 26-04-2016 at 17:23 ----------

 

Or those with tickets could have arranged to arrive on time. Problem solved.

If it was only folk who had tickets got into the ground why were there crushes inside. Did they sell too many tickets or were there folk inside who hadn't got one?

 

The turnstiles at the Leppings Lane End would have needed to be at full capacity from 1pm to allow for all the fans to enter by 3pm.

 

As for you other comment, where have you been? It's common knowledge that the fans were hearded into one section of the stand, leaving the others relatively empty.

[LeMaquis]

Or those with tickets could have arranged to arrive on time. Problem solved.

If it was only folk who had tickets got into the ground why were there crushes inside. Did they sell too many tickets or were there folk inside who hadn't got one?

 

You clearly think that you can change reality by posting lies on here. Even South Yorkshire Police have proved your argument wrong there. David Crompton, chief constable, has said;

 

"On Tuesday, the police chief read out a statement of apology – in which he said the force unequivocally accepted the verdict – but made no direct reference to his own position, “On 15 April 1989, South Yorkshire police got the policing of the FA Cup semi-final at Hillsborough catastrophically wrong,” said Crompton".

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-families-call-for-south-yorkshire-police-chief-david-crompton-to-quit