NigelFargate Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 The policy of erecting wire fences to prevent fans from running on to the pitch was also of course a major contributory factor. It was a disaster waiting to happen. In certain influential circles at the time, fans were regarded as little better than wild animals, to be herded and caged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarus Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 You think the crush was caused by the thirty ticketless fans who all pushed with all their strength and killed 96 people? Thirty? More like a couple of thousand that tried to force their way in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) did the way the fans behave affect the situation ? Yes . although I agree with you that it all was a tragic accident Again the answer is, why weren't the police prepared better? The police should have known there might late arrivals due to the road-works. Even if every single LFC arrived in Sheffield at midday but stayed in the pub until 3 the police should still have been prepared for late arrivals because they expected late arrivals. Arriving late because you were at the pub before is no different from arriving late because you were in traffic in terms of how the police prepare. Late is late is late...But, you might ask, were they all drunk though, when they finally arrived? Evidence suggests not...they were just late. Kick-off should have been delayed to allow the fans to get in safely. In hindsight the solutions are all so simple, but at the time there was panic amongst people that ought to have dealt better with a situation that was in no way unusual. Edited April 26, 2016 by Shef1985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Day Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Not even a teeny weeny bit? Fans arriving late is a contributory factor - but you just cannot blame them even partly for what happen after. The police failed. ---------- Post added 26-04-2016 at 14:56 ---------- Thirty? More like a couple of thousand that tried to force their way in. Round and round we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Like I said, they had a reputation and they have never learnt their lesson. Heysel: "Approximately 1 hour before the Juventus-Liverpool final was due to kick off, a large group of Liverpool fans breached a fence that was separating them from a "neutral area" which contained mostly Juventus fans. The latter ran back on the terraces and away from the threat into a concrete retaining wall. Fans already standing near the wall were crushed; eventually the wall collapsed. Many people climbed over to safety, but many others died or were badly injured." Athens: We know what happened in Athens, and Liverpool fans were the cause of most of the trouble there. "There have been 25 incidents involving Liverpool fans away from home since 2003 and these are in the report - most teams' supporters do not cause any trouble at all." Liverpool have sent their own report to UEFA complaining about lax security measures at the final. Many supporters with forged tickets or no tickets at all managed to gain access to the stadium. Gaillard added: "You must ask yourself why at the same match, with the same conditions, there was no trouble with the Milan fans - only the Liverpool fans." Now for the important part - what does any of that prove about Hillsborough? Mike, get your biased head around this. Thousands of fans arrive late, last minute, many of whom will have been in the pub ( I am a football supporter). In trying to force their way into the ground they have no effect whatsoever in the outcome of what comes next? either physically or in forcing the police decision making process? If you can't see what other people can, despite whatever "evidence" has been recovered then you must have a very blinkered view. RIP the 96 regardless. In order to show that I am biased you would have to show that I believe something that is contradicory to or not supported by evidence. I doubt you can but am happy to discuss it. You, however, appear to be contradicting the fact that all of the available evidence has been judged many times and the conclusion consistently drawn is that the behaviour of the fans did not significantly effect the subsequent events. If you can provide evidence that supports your point of view then please do so... it's obvious, it must have or casting aspersions on "evidence" using quote marks but no actual details does not cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hardie Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Fans arriving late is a contributory factor - but you just cannot blame them even partly for what happen after. The police failed. No one on here has blamed the fans for what happened after the gates were opened. Question 7 refers specifically to what happened outside the turnstiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) If that is true it's horrific. Especially considering your relative was a Liverpool fan (all 96 were I think?) Has anyone in Sheffield that blames Liverpool fans been threatened and thus prevented from testifying? Those are the people I'm more interested in. The ones claiming its a whitewash but apparently did nothing to prevent said whitewash - by getting up in court and telling your side of the story for the jury to consider and for the press to report. If all you can do is post on a forum saying you know the truth and complain it's a whitewash...well.....can't you see the absurdity in that claim?? Just to mention that it was busdriver1 suggesting that, not me. Anyway, I have spent a great deal of energy on this and the Hillsborough Document Release thread trying to challenge and answer points of view that do not comport to the reality of the tragedy as reflected by the evidence. It is sad that some minds will never be changed no matter the evidence laid before them but I am not going to spend any more of this momentous day repeating myself. The evidence is there if you want it. Edited April 26, 2016 by mikem8634 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackey lad Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Fans arriving late is a contributory factor - but you just cannot blame them even partly for what happen after. The police failed. ---------- Post added 26-04-2016 at 14:56 ---------- Round and round we go yes round and round we go , until you get the answer that you and Liverpool wanted and you got it , but you cannot tell people what to believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Day Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 No one on here has blamed the fans for what happened after the gates were opened. Question 7 refers specifically to what happened outside the turnstiles. What happened at the turnstiles leads onto the deaths which is what the inquest was for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shef1985 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Just to mention that it was busdriver1 suggesting that, not me. Yup, sorry I quoted the wrong quote.....no harm no foul :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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