the fonz Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Therein lies the problem, unless your front window was wide enough to take in the entire approaches to the stadium, the inside of the stadium, the police control box, the planning meetings before the match and all the other issues that contributed then it will remain a, quite literally, narrow point of view. Liverpool fans 'rushing' gates without tickets was commonplace at the time. Anyone around Hillsborough on that day knew there were elements of the Liverpool fans looking to cause trouble. 95% of the fans are blameless and yes mistakes were made but to completely remove any of the blame from all fans is an obvious and quite cowardly mistake. Edited April 26, 2016 by the fonz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazon123 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Amazon123 has effectively stated what I was thinking. Almost everyone has been blamed for this (even those in the ambulances, for crying out loud) except the group of people he specifies, this verdict was inevitable though as if it was the other way, we would have been heard years of calls for yet another inquest and more public funds spent on it. It was a "perfect storm" and blame should have been apportioned on all sides. Unfortunately this verdict has been designed merely to keep people happy. Exactly. If you take a step back and look at what actually happened - a large number of people were killed because an even larger group of people rushed into a stadium and crushed them - those people need to be held accountable, as well as all of those named as responsible in the verdict (ambulance men and women, the police, SWFC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Is anyone else watching the live feed from Warrington? What a bittersweet day this is. The faces of the older ladies, clutching the photos of loved ones say it all. The families outside have joined hands and sung 'You'll never walk alone'. Heartbreaking and heartwarming at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambeast Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 I for one hope this is the end of the matter, but it won't be. The Hillsborough Family Support Group won't rest until men in the 70's and 80's are thrown into prison and/or had the pensions they rightfully earnt through 30+ years of service taken off them and they end up destitute. It's time to let it lie now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Justice at last for the 96. What justice can they expect though?? Anyone involved at the time has long since retired, some even dead. There won't be any individual prosecutions, any evidence of actual individual wrongdoing has long be erased or most likely never written down in the first place, leaving only conjecture. The force's reputation is already in the toilet, it can't get much worse to be honest. They'll most likely issues some vague apology, use the well worn phrase of "lessons will be learnt" and go back to twiddling their thumbs. I assume compensation was paid out a long time ago??? Edited April 26, 2016 by geared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Exactly. If you take a step back and look at what actually happened - a large number of people were killed because an even larger group of people rushed into a stadium and crushed them - those people need to be held accountable, as well as all of those named as responsible in the verdict (ambulance men and women, the police, SWFC). All of the investigations into the tragedy, including an inquest which has literally just said that fans were in no way to blame, have taken a step back and looked at what actually happened(to use your phrase) and found, with access to vast swathes of evidence and testimony that you have probably not seen, that you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibbles Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) My opinion will probably lead to an argument and the thread being closed and me probably being banned, so there is little point in stating it. Before this thread degenerates, as these things do given the toxic nature of the forums keyboard warriors (you know who you are) let me say all I'm going to say on this matter and just consider this, just imagine...... Someones child, someones Dad, someones Mum, someones Grandad, someones Nan, someones Uncle, someones Auntie...all went to a football match, under glorious sunshine....and they died. After years and years of lies, smears and cover ups, evidence has been presented to an independent panel of jurors, actual evidence....not hearsay or conjecture...EVIDENCE...they have reviewed all evidence and concluded that as a result of police, stadium, ambulance and FA failings these fans were UNLAWFULLY killed and in no way did football fans contribute to this disaster. There are family members who have gone to their grave, having lost a loved one to such tragic yet unavoidable circumstances who will never have got justice for the death of their loved one, thankfully justice has finally prevailed and hopefully those responsible will be now held accountable. I don't care one bit about your opinion Hambeast because it counts for nothing and means nothing to anyone but you, so you can save it, give yourself a little pat on the back. Peace Out Edited April 26, 2016 by nikki-red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem8634 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) I for one hope this is the end of the matter, but it won't be. The Hillsborough Family Support Group won't rest until men in the 70's and 80's are thrown into prison and/or had the pensions they rightfully earnt through 30+ years of service taken off them and they end up destitute. It's time to let it lie now. It is called accountability. Should the law not apply to all when sufficient evidence is found that it has been broken? ---------- Post added 26-04-2016 at 12:03 ---------- Liverpool fans 'rushing' gates without tickets was commonplace at the time. Anyone around Hillsborough on that day knew there were elements of the Liverpool fans looking to cause trouble. 95% of the fans are blameless and yes mistakes were made but to completely remove any of the blame from all fans is an obvious and quite cowardly mistake. I can't believe I am still having to say this but 2+2 does not equal 5 no matter how much you might want it to. Edited April 26, 2016 by mikem8634 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazon123 Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 Even now, after every inquiry has failed to find any evidence of culpability, after a highly panicked and motivated police force failed for 27 years to find any evidence of culpability, after all of the TV cameras at one of the most comprehensively filmed disaters failed to find any evidence of culpability and after investigative journalists with decidedly political motivations failed to find any evidence of culpability and just lied instead, even now you still say that.. unbelieveable. Who caused the crush, if not the fans? If reasonable people behave in reasonable ways, incidents like this don't happen. As I said, there was clearly fault in a number of areas: the reactions of the emergency services, police control of logistics and developments on the day etc. To absolve the people who actually caused the crush of any responsibility is unhelpful. A more balanced judgement would have been to apportion blame appropriately, without recourse to hysteria or an "us" and "them" mentality. This would have been something everyone could have learned from, including football supporters of all teams who - particularly in the 1980s - frequently behaved in dangerous ways (as other incidents such as Heysel show). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambeast Posted April 26, 2016 Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) My opinion will probably lead to an argument and the thread being closed and me probably being banned, so there is little point in stating it. Before this thread degenerates, as these things do given the toxic nature of the forums keyboard warriors (you know who you are) let me say all I'm going to say on this matter and just consider this, just imagine...... Someones child, someones Dad, someones Mum, someones Grandad, someones Nan, someones Uncle, someones Auntie...all went to a football match, under glorious sunshine....and they died. After years and years of lies, smears and cover ups, evidence has been presented to an independent panel of jurors, actual evidence....not hearsay or conjecture...EVIDENCE...they have reviewed all evidence and concluded that as a result of police, stadium, ambulance and FA failings these fans were UNLAWFULLY killed and in no way did football fans contribute to this disaster. There are family members who have gone to their grave, having lost a loved one to such tragic yet unavoidable circumstances who will never have got justice for the death of their loved one, thankfully justice has finally prevailed and hopefully those responsible will be now held accountable. I don't care one bit about your opinion Hambeast because it counts for nothing and means nothing to anyone but you, so you can save it, give yourself a little pat on the back. Peace Out By the same token, your opinion is equally as meaningless. Edited April 26, 2016 by nikki-red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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