Naz Shah suspended from Parliament for anti Jewish rants.

[Ridgewalk]

lol

 

. . . .

 

---------- Post added 30-04-2016 at 01:33 ----------

 

 

 

of course. If you are going to try to make out that Hitler was a Zionist, like Livingstone did, then you are going to have to also accept that the former Palestine is the Jews' national home.

 

Corbyn is not like Livingstone and he is not an antisemite. But Livingstone should have been put out to pasture years ago. It's already been 8 years since he was comprehensively defeated in the mayoral election. It's only because Corbyn got elected to be Labour leader that Livingstone got emboldened and he and the rest of the antisemite streak of the Labour party Livingstone represents, are having this last hurrah. Perhaps Livingstone should be more careful. He might bring Corbyn down with him.

 

Labour are going to get slaughtered in the local elections next week. These are elections where they should have done well, at this point in the wider election cycle. The antisemites will claim, oh so predictably, that it's all because of the 'Zionist controlled media'. But with Corbyn as leader, Labour only had it coming.

 

 

"ZIonist controlled media" What the hell are you talking about ?

[lh123]

There is no freedom of speech when it is about Israel. This is a country that's costing so much to the American tax payer, they should make it their 51st state.

Even the word "antisemitic" is a con, as most Jews in Israel are Ashkenazi, and have nothing Semitic at all. It would be more accurate to talk about anti-jewish and anti-Zionist, so in which category would her facebook post fall into?

Some of the most vehement anti-Zionist can be found amongst the most religious Jews. I guess the Haredim and Hassidim are "antisemitic" for the western press - the irony!

Meanwhile, all US army members accused of bombing senselessly a hospital in Afghanistan, killing 40+ people, have been cleared.

[samssong]

There is no freedom of speech when it is about Israel. This is a country that's costing so much to the American tax payer, they should make it their 51st state.

Even the word "antisemitic" is a con, as most Jews in Israel are Ashkenazi, and have nothing Semitic at all. It would be more accurate to talk about anti-jewish and anti-Zionist, so in which category would her facebook post fall into?

Some of the most vehement anti-Zionist can be found amongst the most religious Jews. I guess the Haredim and Hassidim are "antisemitic" for the western press - the irony!

Meanwhile, all US army members accused of bombing senselessly a hospital in Afghanistan, killing 40+ people, have been cleared.

Have you not read the thread title.

[lh123]

Have you not read the thread title.

 

I have read it, but I have also read the posts and the press, who don't seem to know the difference.

[Eater Sundae]

I have read it, but I have also read the posts and the press, who don't seem to know the difference.

 

I think it would be more appropriate to use the term "anti Jewish" in most cases.

[Margarita Ma]

Back to Palestine?

 

Yes BACK to Palestine. The Jewish people originated in Palestine. Trade and slavery has spread many peoples from their original homeland, this is not a modern phenomenon.

 

---------- Post added 30-04-2016 at 09:07 ----------

 

So who's doing the conflating?

 

I put it to you that it's the anti-Semites that have done the conflating, hiding behind anti-Zionism to disguise their hatred of Jews.

 

How else do you explain the extreme emphasis over the various exaggerated misdemeanours committed by such a small state compared with all the other much bigger crimes committed by many other states?

 

I notice that nobody has attempted to answer my questions in #84, but let me apply Occams Razor and conclude that anti-Semitism is at the root of anti-Zionism.

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2016 at 14:33 ----------

 

 

The idea that Islamist terror is caused by poverty is patently false.

 

Ahem.

Misdemeanors ? Exaggerated? How do you equate misdemeanor with dealing out death and destruction ?

How do you exaggerate whole villages and families wiped out and the land appropriated/ re designated, new settlements established when It has been agreed internationally that this is illegal.

People ghettoed in the Ghaza strip and separated peoples in Ghaza and on the west bank do not feel that their misery is caused by misdemeanor and exaggeration.

Comparison was not something that was mentioned before now. Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

I only saw one question at post 84. I do not know much about the agreement you mention, I am aware of the name but not much more. No doubt you will enlighten us.

 

Poverty was not a word I used in relation to IS. but as you raise it, poverty can be seen in relative terms and when daily images of relative wealth are broadcast to young people as a desirable goal it has an effect.

 

In my opinion the Holocaust has had a lasting and continuing effect on millions of people who survived and millions more who fought in the war, civilians who were bombed were also traumatised and handed on their trauma to their children. Not only Jews were targeted by the Nazi regime. Homosexuals, people who were considered a burden on society for all sorts of reasons went to the gas chamber and for medical experimentation and sexual gratification and, oddly, a breeding program. Yet the Jews seem to have a problem in remembering these things happened to other people too. Yes it was Horrific. Yes we condemned it. We as a nation sacrificed lives to stop it, as did many others. There is the difference, we acknowledge that others were affected. Yes I know we only declared war when Poland was invaded. When have we intervened in internal workings of other countries?

 

The Israeli State seems to think that because over half a century ago their relatives suffered a terrible injustice this justifies their injustices, it does not.

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth means everyone ends up blind and unable to eat the fruit until it is rotten.

 

I just heard this morning that a group of Jewish Labour supporters have made a statement saying that they do not consider Livingstone's speech to be Anti-Semitic.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Margarita Ma

[blake]

This is a country that's costing so much to the American tax payer, they should make it their 51st state.

.

 

4 billion dollars a year, which is the increase Bibi is going to get, is chump change and chicken feed in comparison to the massive US budget. The money is not a straight up donation in the first place - a lot of it is in the form of loans. Egypt only gets slightly less in aid in a year than Israel does, and I don't see anybody trying to make out that they should be a '52nd state'.

 

most Jews in Israel are Ashkenazi.

 

no, they are not : Ashkenhazi are only now about 48%. At one time, yes they were the majority but they became the minority about 5 years ago.

Edited April 30, 2016 by blake

[milquetoast1]

Ahem.

Misdemeanors ? Exaggerated? How do you equate misdemeanor with dealing out death and destruction ?

How do you exaggerate whole villages and families wiped out and the land appropriated/ re designated, new settlements established when It has been agreed internationally that this is illegal.

People ghettoed in the Ghaza strip and separated peoples in Ghaza and on the west bank do not feel that their misery is caused by misdemeanor and exaggeration. <snip rest of rant>

 

I'm no advocate for Israel, and of the same opinion as Christopher Hitchens as flamingjimmy reminded me yesterday:

 

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=11372195

 

"Everyone in the civilised world has roughly agreed, including the majority of Arabs and Jews and the international community, that there should be enough room for two states, for two peoples in the same land. I think there is rough agreement on that. Why can't we get it? The UN can't get it, the U.S. can't get it, the Quartet can't get it, the PLO can't get it, the Israeli parliament can't get it. Why can't they get it?

 

We can't get it because the parties of God have a veto on it and everybody knows that this is true. Because of the divine promises made about this territory, there will never be any peace, never be any compromise. There will instead be misery, shame and tyranny, and people will kill each other's children for ancient books and caves and relics."

 

It's ironic that in trying to defend against the opinion of exaggerated concerns about Israel you then make exaggerated claims about Israel.

 

So back to my questions in #48.

 

Why this unique fury for Israel?

 

What about <very long list of countries with horrific human abuses>?

 

Why not the more nuanced recognition about the claims in the region, rather than taking sides?

 

The answers have to be that it is anti-Semetism at the root cause. It might not be you, or the people you discuss this with, but it certainly is the root of it. People are being played as pawns by nasty people with anti-Semitic views, and this is the reason for the unique fury against Israel.

 

There are now too many people on the far left who drink the kool-aid of people like Lenni Brenner, including Ken Livingstone who thinks he is a reliable opinion on all things "Zio".

 

I used to vote Labour, but not now. I've not changed, it's Labour that has.

[foxy lady]

I just heard this morning that a group of Jewish Labour supporters have made a statement saying that they do not consider Livingstone's speech to be Anti-Semitic.

 

Oh well. That's alright then.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36157027

[sutty27]

Y

 

I just heard this morning that a group of Jewish Labour supporters have made a statement saying that they do not consider Livingstone's speech to be Anti-Semitic.

 

I also can't figure out why his speech is described as Anti-Semitic.

Edited April 30, 2016 by sutty27