The Rich get richer, much richer1

[hyper]

A balanced and thoughtful post TedHeath. To pick out a few bits though ...

Aspiration and ambition appear stifled unless you fit the acceptable profile of the elite.

this in itself needs to be addressed. The fact that too many feel that the possibility of doing better is not within their grasp unless they have connections. The thought of retraining/investing/risking/uber-hardworking is something that only others can do ... and then those who missed out resent those who didn't.

 

This is not sustainable, unless there is fairness and a more equitable sharing of wealth inevitably the pot will boil over. I fear we are closer to boiling point than we realize.

I agree, but at the same time everyone cannot earn equal, as there will be no incentive to improve things, either for the individual or for society as a whole. Maybe we could have ceiling earnings limits, to cut out the obscene, but this in itself raises problems.

The arrogance and stupidity that caused the banking crisis has not been properly addressed, people see another elite rising and they do not like what they see.

the arrogance and stupidy was shared. The bankers may have driven it, but the general populous made good use of it and those supposedly safeguarding the population turned a blind eye. So "we" (even the labour-voting working class man) acted stupidly and stoked the inferno here, and as such has to accept some of the consequences of their actions.

 

This is not based on envy, it is based on a perception that people like Sorrel are not worth what they receive and that others, not necessarily themselves, are suffering.

true, and income caps may help, but he is in a tiny minority. This is exactly the flipside of the high earner saying all benefit claimants are milking the system - some are, but its a minority

[carosio]

It's fair game to shout and clamour for a share of the profits, but when losses and bankruptcy appear, no one wants a share in that, they're out the door faster than you can say Jack Robinson!

[Mister M]

Martin Sorrell's parents were Jewish immigrants either just before or during WW2 (Sorrell himself was born in 1945). His father had a good head for business and by the 1960s was running a chain of electrical stores nationwide.

 

I'm interested to know if posters like Solomon consider Sorrell's parents escaping persecution in the Ukraine and making a new life in the UK a good thing, as long as they didn't make any money or become successful.

 

I'm not Solomon, so I can't answer for him but I'm glad that Sorrell's parents and millions like them, who were persecuted & fleeing a tyrannical regime in the 1930s and 1940s were welcomed into other European countries and America. I just wonder if catastrophic event like WWII happened today whether people would be as accepting - given the recent debate over events in Syria? And the people that are being turned away from other countries might be budding Martin Sorrells - who knows?

 

I've no problem with anyone making money; and to an extent, Sorrell is the exception rather than the rule, in terms of wealth and income - but I guess what we're all having to grapple with is the economic and social consequences of gross inequality. If it affects social goods like social mobility, that affects us all - then politicians can no longer ignore it like Blair did.

[Staunton]

Poor old Solomon1 draws valid attention to the access to privileged institutions enjoyed by families like the Sorrells, whilst the injustices of a system which allows these obscene discrepancies between the life chances of the charmed few and the ordinary people becomes a further theme for quibble by the distraction mongers.

 

Don't be fooled!

 

And Cyclone wishes to argue about semantics, about the meaning of words such as 'meanwhile', in another ruse to muddy the waters and wrench the argument away from the stark facts.

 

Neoliberalism, the economic policy which is delivering such huge rewards to families like the Sorrells whilst simultaneously leaving elderly and vulnerable people facing a terrifying future as crisis looms over the care system, does not work.

 

Cyclone might like to re-examine those gini figures and explain why inequality rose dramatically under Thatcher and has remained high ever since. The evidence that Cyclone cites confirms that inequality was a significant component of Conservative policy in the 1980s, and has since become structural in the UK economy.

[I1L2T3]

Can you see post #85 where I said "standard of living" and not "wealth"?

 

Perhaps that was a clue as to what I was talking about... Just maybe.

 

Why do you need my definition of wealth? This thread is about income inequality and the OP has been proven to be wrong.

 

Because you affirmed Ron's post that stated the poor had never been so wealthy.

 

It's patent nonsense IMO but I'm willing to see your definition of wealth just in case I need to change my mind.

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2016 at 18:43 ----------

 

Corrected for accuracy according to comrade Solomon1's sentiment

 

 

You can joke about it but not long before we won the world cup that is basically not far below the level of earnings of a lot of footballers. In the early 60s the average weekly wage was £15. Footballers got on average £20.

[Obelix]

Poor old Solomon1 draws valid attention to the access to privileged institutions enjoyed by families like the Sorrells, whilst the injustices of a system which allows these obscene discrepancies between the life chances of the charmed few and the ordinary people becomes a further theme for quibble by the distraction mongers.

 

Don't be fooled!

 

And Cyclone wishes to argue about semantics, about the meaning of words such as 'meanwhile', in another ruse to muddy the waters and wrench the argument away from the stark facts.

 

Neoliberalism, the economic policy which is delivering such huge rewards to families like the Sorrells whilst simultaneously leaving elderly and vulnerable people facing a terrifying future as crisis looms over the care system, does not work.

 

Cyclone might like to re-examine those gini figures and explain why inequality rose dramatically under Thatcher and has remained high ever since. The evidence that Cyclone cites confirms that inequality was a significant component of Conservative policy in the 1980s, and has since become structural in the UK economy.

 

So explain to me as a son of a miner, how I could easily go to Uni under the Conservatives?

 

I've got a large number of Explorer scouts - they dont seem to have problems getting into decent uni's despite families being working class or on benefits...

[Staunton]

So explain to me as a son of a miner, how I could easily go to Uni under the Conservatives?

 

I've got a large number of Explorer scouts - they dont seem to have problems getting into decent uni's despite families being working class or on benefits...

 

Was that Oxford or Cambridge? Or perhaps the London School of Economics, or maybe Imperial College London?

 

These are the prestige institutions that feature in the CVs of those who populate the boardrooms and government departments, where students enjoy privileges such as one-to-one tutorials, and get to meet with others of privilege. If you need evidence, just take a look at David Cameron's ministerial appointments.

 

And it is from these charmed heights that policies are delivered that impose poverty and struggle on ordinary people. People such as those who work long hours on the minimum wage to care for elderly and frail people in our communities.

[RonJeremy]

Was that Oxford or Cambridge? Or perhaps the London School of Economics, or maybe Imperial College London?

 

These are the prestige institutions that feature in the CVs of those who populate the boardrooms and government departments, where students enjoy privileges such as one-to-one tutorials, and get to meet with others of privilege. If you need evidence, just take a look at David Cameron's ministerial appointments.

 

And it is from these charmed heights that policies are delivered that impose poverty and struggle on ordinary people. People such as those who work long hours on the minimum wage to care for elderly and frail people in our communities.

 

I would hope that the cleverest people and the best educated are the ones making policies. It has to be better than having a person who is stupid, uneducated or both deciding on how the country is run.

 

You have a massive chip on your shoulder. It is affecting your judgment.

[mossdog]

Because you affirmed Ron's post that stated the poor had never been so wealthy.

 

It's patent nonsense IMO but I'm willing to see your definition of wealth just in case I need to change my mind.

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2016 at 18:43 ----------

 

 

You can joke about it but not long before we won the world cup that is basically not far below the level of earnings of a lot of footballers. In the early 60s the average weekly wage was £15. Footballers got on average £20.

.........if you do not agree that the "poor"(bankrupt word in Britain these days)have never been so wealthy!.........you are living on a different planet to lots of us with long memories...........just like the junior doctors who have recently chose to strike!

Still wet behind the ears,earning more than lots of us can only dream about.Most having taken out far more than they have put into this country at this stage of their lives................maybe a wake up call is coming not far down the road!

[RonJeremy]

Because you affirmed Ron's post that stated the poor had never been so wealthy.

 

It's patent nonsense IMO but I'm willing to see your definition of wealth just in case I need to change my mind.

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2016 at 18:43 ----------

 

 

You can joke about it but not long before we won the world cup that is basically not far below the level of earnings of a lot of footballers. In the early 60s the average weekly wage was £15. Footballers got on average £20.

Remember the 70's? People couldnt afford to eat out. Very few had phones, Central heating, cars (people had to catch the bus fgs). Health care was low, life expectancy was short. Foreign holidays?? Yeah right.

 

You do know and you can probably remember. You are just trying to justify your stance.

 

The people who don't want to work are not very well off, but they have all their subsistence paid for by those who do and particularly by People in the OP who pay a helluva lot of tax to support them.

 

Please remove the cataracts fom your eyes (yes you can get them done for free on the NHS paid for by the BIG taxpayers). Not sure the taxpayer will pay for the chip to be surgically removed from your left shoulder though