The Rich get richer, much richer1

[truman]

On a typical 50k paye salary:

2014 £36,141

2015 £36,352

2015 £36,465

 

Looks like it's going up to me.

 

In 13/14 40% started at 32011

 

In 14/15 40% started at 31866

 

In 15/16 40% started at 31786

 

(these amounts are after the personal allowance has been taken off)

 

you started paying 40% at a lower amount...that's what I said.. everyone who is working gets the increase in personal allowance but those on higher wages don't get the full benefit...

[Cyclone]

They consistently raise the tax threshold. The middle class keep more of their money.

 

And then you actually look at the numbers and realise that you've swallowed more PR spin.

 

You need to be far more cynical when considering things.

 

That increase that you've shown is actually lower than RPI (retail price inflation), so in real terms the buying power has gone down every year. (Quite a lot lower in fact).

 

Some examples

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10809340/Why-the-middle-is-still-feeling-the-squeeze.html

 

and a more recent story

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36466186

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-2410104/The-MILLION-middle-class-families-buy-home.html

 

And this ignores all the other changes in tax that keep being made. Extra stamp duty for 2nd houses, changes to the way dividends are taxed, NI thresholds adjusted, VAT increase (that was 2011), etc, etc...

Edited June 10, 2016 by Cyclone

[Tomjames]

And then you actually look at the numbers and realise that you've swallowed more PR spin.

 

You need to be far more cynical when considering things.

 

The expectations are too high. People want holidays, kids, nice things for their house & live on high interest debt.

 

My thoughts are most people are clueless about money. They can make it ok but don't understand how to budget & make money work for them.

 

---------- Post added 10-06-2016 at 10:26 ----------

 

In 13/14 40% started at 32011

 

In 14/15 40% started at 31866

 

In 15/16 40% started at 31786

 

(these amounts are after the personal allowance has been taken off)

 

you started paying 40% at a lower amount...that's what I said.. everyone who is working gets the increase in personal allowance but those on higher wages don't get the full benefit...

 

As I've explained the salary is going up.

[Cyclone]

The expectations are too high. People want holidays, kids, nice things for their house & live on high interest debt.

Irrelevant to the point I made.

 

hey run constant PR campaigns against people claiming all kinds of benefits. For example, talking about the level of benefit fraud. When you look at the actual numbers, is a trivial amount not worth the attention they're spending on it.

They've also run a PR campaign against the NHS with the intention of demonising the staff and making them appear to be unreasonable all as a prelude to the NHS "failing" which is an excuse to privatise it.

 

They've really taken the mantra of "divide and conquer" to heart.

 

Unfortunately the aspirational working class and a large portion of the less perceptive middle class have fallen for it, they think that a conservative government will act in their favour and make them more well off (and sod everyone else). It's entirely untrue for the majority, the conservatives are in favour of big business and the ultra rich, not the moderately well off middle class or the aspirational but poor.

 

Which is that they are divise and deliberately go about demonising specific groups.

As I've explained the salary is going up.

 

At a lower rate than inflation, and ignoring the wider picture of all the other taxes involved.

[Anna B]

This is a bold assertion. I believe it is wrong. Please show some evidence that they are demonising those in distress. Can you you show me a quote or something where they have labelled disabled people scroungers.

 

This has been done to death on Sheffield Forum, and you know it. I suggest you review a few threads.

[El Cid]

This is a bold assertion. I believe it is wrong. Please show some evidence that they are demonising those in distress. Can you you show me a quote or something where they have labelled disabled people scroungers.

 

I believe they do stigmatise those on benefits. But they do that because it is almost impossible to say which of those on benefits, are there due to their own behaviour.

 

The Tories have gone too far.

[unbeliever]

This has been done to death on Sheffield Forum, and you know it. I suggest you review a few threads.

 

I've never seen it that I can recall.

 

There's been plenty of criticism of those exaggerating or outright faking disability.

There's been plenty of criticism of those on benefits by choice.

Most of those guilty of such criticism would not hesitate to condemn attacks on the genuinely disabled.

[Tomjames]

Irrelevant to the point I made.

 

hey run constant PR campaigns against people claiming all kinds of benefits. For example, talking about the level of benefit fraud. When you look at the actual numbers, is a trivial amount not worth the attention they're spending on it.

They've also run a PR campaign against the NHS with the intention of demonising the staff and making them appear to be unreasonable all as a prelude to the NHS "failing" which is an excuse to privatise it.

 

They've really taken the mantra of "divide and conquer" to heart.

 

Unfortunately the aspirational working class and a large portion of the less perceptive middle class have fallen for it, they think that a conservative government will act in their favour and make them more well off (and sod everyone else). It's entirely untrue for the majority, the conservatives are in favour of big business and the ultra rich, not the moderately well off middle class or the aspirational but poor.

 

Which is that they are divise and deliberately go about demonising specific groups.

 

 

At a lower rate than inflation, and ignoring the wider picture of all the other taxes involved.

 

It's not the responsibility of governments to make us 'more well off'.

 

I was making the point because I believe it's this mentality (that i described) that holds the middle class back.

 

When I was on 60-70k (not now, im poor relatively speaking) I was always spending up to the earnings. It was only when I learnt how money works and stopped upgrading and taking on consumer debt did I feel comfortable.

 

Do you see what i am saying?

 

---------- Post added 10-06-2016 at 12:42 ----------

 

Irrelevant to the point I made.

 

hey run constant PR campaigns against people claiming all kinds of benefits. For example, talking about the level of benefit fraud. When you look at the actual numbers, is a trivial amount not worth the attention they're spending on it.

 

I actually agree with this statement. Benefit fraud's a relatively trivial sum that has more to do with conservative ideology than more money in the coffers.

 

---------- Post added 10-06-2016 at 12:45 ----------

 

I think we should learn about money in school. Side point there I know.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Tomjames
lll

[Cyclone]

It's not the responsibility of governments to make us 'more well off'.

I didn't claim that it was. I claimed that they stigmatise groups of people in order to have us fighting amongst ourselves. I claimed that they run a PR campaign against anyone claiming benefits, and also against the NHS.

 

I was making the point because I believe it's this mentality (that i described) that holds the middle class back.

 

When I was on 60-70k (not now, im poor relatively speaking) I was always spending up to the earnings. It was only when I learnt how money works and stopped upgrading and taking on consumer debt did I feel comfortable.

 

Do you see what i am saying?

I see that your saying something, but I don't see how it's related to what I said.

 

---------- Post added 10-06-2016 at 13:48 ----------

 

On a typical 50k paye salary:

2014 £36,141

2015 £36,352

2015 £36,465

 

Looks like it's going up to me.

 

BUT...

 

That said. You DID claim that they were making people more well off.

 

And I say they aren't.

 

---------- Post added 10-06-2016 at 13:49 ----------

 

They consistently raise the tax threshold. The middle class keep more of their money.

 

And this point was apparently the counter (or was at least quoting my post) where I said.

 

They run constant PR campaigns against people claiming all kinds of benefits. For example, talking about the level of benefit fraud. When you look at the actual numbers, is a trivial amount not worth the attention they're spending on it.

They've also run a PR campaign against the NHS with the intention of demonising the staff and making them appear to be unreasonable all as a prelude to the NHS "failing" which is an excuse to privatise it.

 

They've really taken the mantra of "divide and conquer" to heart.

 

Unfortunately the aspirational working class and a large portion of the less perceptive middle class have fallen for it, they think that a conservative government will act in their favour and make them more well off (and sod everyone else). It's entirely untrue for the majority, the conservatives are in favour of big business and the ultra rich, not the moderately well off middle class or the aspirational but poor.

 

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that you're probably a conservative voter, and cognitive dissonance is forcing you to avoid the point I've made and counter it with something irrelevant (which also happens to be incorrect).

Edited June 10, 2016 by Cyclone

[Tomjames]

I didn't claim that it was. I claimed that they stigmatise groups of people in order to have us fighting amongst ourselves. I claimed that they run a PR campaign against anyone claiming benefits, and also against the NHS.

I see that your saying something, but I don't see how it's related to what I said.

 

 

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that you're probably a conservative voter, and cognitive dissonance is forcing you to avoid the point I've made and counter it with something irrelevant (which also happens to be incorrect).

 

So the point you are making is we are fighting amongst ourselves? why would they want this scenario?

 

You said that people vote for the conservative party because they feel it will make them better off (the middle classes).

 

I made the point, it is not governments responsibility to make people more well off.

 

However as a consequence of a conservative government, wages are rising and you keep more of your money due to tax threshhold rises + interest is low. All facts.

 

I certainly don't think the middles classes were much better off under a Labour leadership.

 

The poor have always had it hard so we'll leave them out of it.