The Rich get richer, much richer1

[Cyclone]

Yes, I did. Care to show your workings out that show a 40p gap?

[Staunton]

They run constant PR campaigns against people claiming all kinds of benefits. For example, talking about the level of benefit fraud. When you look at the actual numbers, is a trivial amount not worth the attention they're spending on it.

They've also run a PR campaign against the NHS with the intention of demonising the staff and making them appear to be unreasonable all as a prelude to the NHS "failing" which is an excuse to privatise it.

 

They've really taken the mantra of "divide and conquer" to heart.

 

Unfortunately the aspirational working class and a large portion of the less perceptive middle class have fallen for it, they think that a conservative government will act in their favour and make them more well off (and sod everyone else). It's entirely untrue for the majority, the conservatives are in favour of big business and the ultra rich, not the moderately well off middle class or the aspirational but poor.

 

Agree, agree, and, err, agree!

 

Well said Cyclone!

 

---------- Post added 12-06-2016 at 18:43 ----------

 

This is a bold assertion. I believe it is wrong. Please show some evidence that they are demonising those in distress. Can you you show me a quote or something where they have labelled disabled people scroungers.

 

Conservatives are generally none too bright, but they are mostly sensible enough to avoid saying 'scrounger' and 'disabled' in the same sentence. Nevertheless Mr Duncan Smith and his cabinet colleagues were hugely successful in linking disability to the general climate of blame that the tories cynically generated (with a great deal of help from their gutter press friends at The Sun, the Daily Mail, etc.) and directed at the unemployed. As they mercilessly attacked disability benefits and brought in multinational tax avoiders ATOS to deny disabled people the support they need to meet their needs and maintain their dignity, the party leadership stuck the boot into the victims of a recession caused by the rich, people who through no fault of their own found themselves having to rely on financial support from the taxpayer.

 

Here are David Cameron's words from 2010: 'There is no way of dealing with an 11 per cent budget deficit just by hitting either the rich or the welfare scrounger,' he said in an interview for The Times.

 

And does anyone recall George Osborne's infamous statement at the 2012 Conservative Party conference, during his promotion of a benefits cut of £10 billion: 'Where is the fairness, we ask, for the shift worker, leaving home in the dark hours of the early morning, who looks up at the closed blinds of their next door neighbour sleeping off a life on benefits?' Osborne manages to obscure the fact that it was the bankers who caused the global financial scandal of 2007, preferring to set the poor low-paid shift worker against the even poorer unemployed as he trumpets his ideologically motivated austerity policy. In his speech Osborne went on to link the notional 'hard working individual' with achievement, pretending that the conservatives: '...speak for that worker. We speak for all those who want to work hard and get on', and cynically implying that simple hard work is somehow rewarded.

 

So, the tory-led coalition went ahead with tax cuts for big business and the rich after increasing VAT (which hits the poor most of all) so that the poor got poorer whilst the wealthiest 1%, people like tax avoiders Martin Sorrell, Philip Green and Mike Ashley increased their fortunes. Cameron chose to help the rich and 'hit' the poor.

And now we are beginning to see just how deep the crisis really is within the care sector as some of the most vulnerable people in our communities face desperate circumstances as the savaged social care budget takes its toll and thousands of care homes face closure.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Staunton

[Tomjames]

Yes, I did. Care to show your workings out that show a 40p gap?

 

Yes it went up to £1.40 and was 99p a few weeks ago.

[Cyclone]

Trying to change the goalposts eh. It's £1.10 right now isn't it. So it was never 40p cheaper than it is now was it.

[Tomjames]

Trying to change the goalposts eh. It's £1.10 right now isn't it. So it was never 40p cheaper than it is now was it.

 

I said it was 1 and was 1.40 a few years ago.

Not sure what you are trying to prove.

[Cyclone]

Well, it was just the easiest of the things you claimed to prove wrong. But given that you got that wrong, it's likely that the rest is wrong as well, it would just take me more effort to prove it.

 

saying that it's £1.00/litre doesn't actually make it so, it is in fact >£1.10

[Tomjames]

Well, it was just the easiest of the things you claimed to prove wrong. But given that you got that wrong, it's likely that the rest is wrong as well, it would just take me more effort to prove it.

 

saying that it's £1.00/litre doesn't actually make it so, it is in fact >£1.10

 

I said it was 1 and was 1.40 a few years ago...I was right. You are wrong.

[Cyclone]

For example.

I've proved we are earning more money,

No you didn't. You actually proved that takehome pay has increased slightly due to a change in the tax bands.

But you failed to take into account inflation and other changes in taxation.

keeping more money & an essential cost like fuel is 40p per litre cheaper

As previously pointed out by someone, that's just 1 essential. RPI is still positive though, so cherry picking fuel doesn't show that the cost of living has fallen (even ignoring that you got the decrease in fuel price wrong).

 

I ask for the final time, what tax burden, as I haven't noticed. Apart from a 4% rise in council tax.

 

You haven't noticed.. So what. That doesn't mean anything.

To pick a few changes out.

Child Tax Benefit withdrawn for any household with someone earning >50k.

Dividend tax changes to the detriment of small business owners.

VAT increased to 20%.

Additional stamp duty added onto 2nd house purchases.

Interest relief on letting profit removed.

Insurance premium tax increased by 30%.

Maximum pension pot size reduced (before tax relief is withdrawn)

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 13:00 ----------

 

 

Fuel prices are low too. 40p per litre or so lower than 2007.

 

this is specifically what you said. And specifically you were wrong.

 

Fuel prices are currently 30p below the 2012 peak. They are 20p HIGHER than they were in 2007.

That's you being absolutely and categorically wrong. You couldn't be any more wrong.

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 13:02 ----------

 

Have another (or probably the 1st) look at this one again.

 

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/household-income/the-effects-of-taxes-and-benefits-on-household-income/50-years-of-the-effects-of-taxes-and-benefits-analysis/sty-taxes-and-benefits-on-household-income.html

 

Scroll down to figure 2. See how gross income started to fall after 2009.

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 13:05 ----------

 

And here, the ONS analysis

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/nowcastinghouseholdincomeintheuk/2015-10-28

 

retired households now slightly better off than before the 07-09 crash.

working households still worse off than before the crash.

 

Overall, the average is just about level with the pre crash figures.

Based on these provisional estimates, the median household disposable income was £25,600 in 2014/15. After taking account of inflation2 and changes in household composition over time, this figure is broadly comparable to the pre-economic downturn level observed in 2007/08 (£25,400).

[Tomjames]

For example.

 

No you didn't. You actually proved that takehome pay has increased slightly due to a change in the tax bands.

But you failed to take into account inflation and other changes in taxation.

 

As previously pointed out by someone, that's just 1 essential. RPI is still positive though, so cherry picking fuel doesn't show that the cost of living has fallen (even ignoring that you got the decrease in fuel price wrong).

 

You haven't noticed.. So what. That doesn't mean anything.

To pick a few changes out.

Child Tax Benefit withdrawn for any household with someone earning >50k.

Dividend tax changes to the detriment of small business owners.

VAT increased to 20%.

Additional stamp duty added onto 2nd house purchases.

Interest relief on letting profit removed.

Insurance premium tax increased by 30%.

Maximum pension pot size reduced (before tax relief is withdrawn)

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 13:00 ----------

 

 

this is specifically what you said. And specifically you were wrong.

 

Fuel prices are currently 30p below the 2012 peak. They are 20p HIGHER than they were in 2007.

That's you being absolutely and categorically wrong. You couldn't be any more wrong.

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 13:02 ----------

 

Have another (or probably the 1st) look at this one again.

 

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/household-income/the-effects-of-taxes-and-benefits-on-household-income/50-years-of-the-effects-of-taxes-and-benefits-analysis/sty-taxes-and-benefits-on-household-income.html

 

Scroll down to figure 2. See how gross income started to fall after 2009.

 

---------- Post added 13-06-2016 at 13:05 ----------

 

And here, the ONS analysis

 

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/nowcastinghouseholdincomeintheuk/2015-10-28

 

retired households now slightly better off than before the 07-09 crash.

working households still worse off than before the crash.

 

Overall, the average is just about level with the pre crash figures.

 

I said 1.40 and it was...i said 1 and it was...i am right and you are wrong.

[Cyclone]

Fuel prices are low too. 40p per litre or so lower than 2007.

 

Well, now you're just lying. We can quite clearly see what you said.

 

Can you also fix your quotes, and then read the rest of the post.