Deal over Turkey joining the EU?

[tzijlstra]

It clearly says they can.

 

You’re from Turkey

 

To get Working Tax Credit you need to be lawfully present in the UK and a Turkish national.

 

You may be able to get Child Tax Credit if you’re either working in the UK or you’re not working because you’re:

 

retired

pregnant or looking after children

sick or disabled or your partner has died

 

Working tax credit, you need to be working, ie. You need a work visa. Child tax credit, alone is hardly enough to eat from, let alone pay British rents. This is the prototypical case of the Leave campaign scaremongering and very easily debunked once you think things through.

 

Also, this is the result of poorly worded national law and can be changed without the EU, what is stopping the UK doing that?

Edited May 23, 2016 by tzijlstra

[L00b]

But that's this week's rule - what happens when the rules change for expediency due to some unforeseen changed future milieu? The unknown unknowns if you will.

Use your crystal ball, it's as good as mine and anyone else's

 

FWIW, my crystal ball (informed as it is by factual EU legislation and a modicum of knowledge about international politics) says that this veto on accession will never be repealed: it's enshrined in the TFEU (Article 49, specifically), the most fundamental and important piece of legislation that sets up the EU, and has been present in every Treaty since the first setting out the ECSC.

 

And the TFEU cannot be amended without unanimity from the EU member states: Article 48 TFEU guarantees that each Member State (including the UK) has the power to veto any amendment to the EU Treaties (including the TFEU itself).

 

That means your "unknown unknowns" aimed at curbing the veto on new member accession would have to be agreed by every last all EU country. That's before the question of letting Turkey (or any other country) in under Art.49 is tabled.

 

For a start, and besides other EU countries with more 'serious' governments, neither Greece nor Cyprus will ever allow Turkey to join until the northern question is resolved, and Hungary will never allow Turkey to join either so long as Orban/his party are in power.

 

So long as Erdogan and his clique are in power (and as they have been busy consolidating that power for a few years now, gradually eroding the constitutional secularity established by Atatürk way-back-when and dragging Turkey back through muslimification), it's never going to happen. Even after Erdogan is eventually gone and Turkey's secularity restored in anger, it would still take a long while until the country gets its collective <removed> sufficiently in order to meet the conditions under the 35 accession chapters at their most basic (which it never did even before Erdogan surfaced and the country veered sharply islamo-nationalist).

 

Which is why I replied to truman the other day (who was asking me whether I thought Turkey could ever join the EU) "not gonna happen in decades".

Edited June 12, 2016 by nikki-red

[Tomjames]

Germany has benefited from mass turkish inward migration.

We do not need 80 million turks descending on our small Isle.

We simply do not need the numbers.

[L00b]

Germany has benefited from mass turkish inward migration.

So has the UK from mass Commonwealth inward migration: Germany's Turks and France's Moroccans and Algerians are the socio-economic equivalent to the UK's Pakistani, Indians and West Indians.

We do not need 80 million turks descending on our small Isle.

Well, you'll be highly reassured to learn (again, and again, and again) that a Schengen tourist visa (which is what is under discussion between the EU and Ankara...and looking ever less likely to happen relative to only a few weeks ago) does not allow Turks to enter the non-Schengen UK without the UK immigration service's say-so.

 

If you (and all those terrified at the prospect of Turkish tourists visiting the UK) have a problem with inward Turkish tourism, I suggest that you voice your concerns to your (probably UKIP-) MEP so they put in a word in Brussels/Strasbourg about it insofar as the EU is concerned, and to your MP so they influence the UK government to issue less tourism visas to Turks insofar as the UK itself is concerned

Edited May 23, 2016 by L00b

[Tomjames]

So has the UK from mass Commonwealth inward migration: Germany's Turks and France's Moroccans and Algerians are the socio-economic equivalent to the UK's Pakistani and Indians.

Well, you'll be highly reassured to learn (again, and again, and again) that a Schengen tourist visa (which is what is under discussion between the EU and Ankara...and looking ever less likely to happen relative to only a few weeks ago) does not allow Turks to enter the non-Schengen UK without the UK immigration service's say-so.

 

If you (and all those terrified at the prospect of Turkish tourists visiting the UK) have a problem with inward Turkish tourism, I suggest that you voice your concerns to your (probably UKIP-) MEP so they put in a word in Brussels/Strasbourg about it insofar as the EU is concerned, and to your MP so they influence the UK government to issue less tourism visas to Turks insofar as the UK itself is concerned

 

Yes I had a good kebab in Berlin once. Well done turkey.

[L00b]

Yes I had a good kebab in Berlin once. Well done turkey.

Are you still drunk from last night?

[Tomjames]

Are you still drunk from last night?

 

I am tee total. I am simply stating that there are a lot of turkish kebab places in Germany. All that could be ours.

[JFKvsNixon]

I am tee total. I am simply stating that there are a lot of turkish kebab places in Germany. All that could be ours.

 

I see that you haven't gone beyond the lazy stereotype stage yet.

[L00b]

I am tee total.

Ah, well, since you're so fond of referencing Churchill in this debate, I'm sure you know his famous quote well: "never trust a man who doesn't drink"

I am simply stating that there are a lot of turkish kebab places in Germany.

Yep, same as there are a lot of Indian curry places in the UK and there are a lot of Moroccan couscous places in France. That's validating my earlier point, so thanks for that.

All that could be ours.

Vote Brexit to stop the mass setting up of kebab shops? Is that really your argument here?

 

Tears of laughter here!

[Tomjames]

Ah, well, since you're so fond of referencing Churchill in this debate, I'm sure you know his famous quote well: "never trust a man who doesn't drink"

Yep, same as there are a lot of Indian curry places in the UK and there are a lot of Moroccan couscous places in France. That's validating my earlier point, so thanks for that.

Vote Brexit to stop the mass setting up of kebab shops? Is that really your argument here?

 

Tears of laughter here!

 

Why are you mocking? Those 1 euro 50 kebabs from turkish kebab vans are some of the finest in Europe. Arguably Turkeys greatest export.

 

We clearly need more because we don't have enough kebab shops, SFC shops and corner shops do we?

 

Forget these skilled folk with degrees.