Blanket ban on 'Legal highs' enforced today.

[Cyclone]

Prostitution isn't illegal, it's soliciting and running a brothel that are illegal.

But the semi-illegality makes the trade more dangerous for both parties in the transaction.

[sutty27]

But the issue with things being banned, is the the users and dealers become prison bait, and they pay no taxes.

The users and dealers cost the state money, the prison service, police force and NHS.

 

The legal consumption of alcohol and tobacco costs the state money, alcohol consumption leads people to prisons, into a life of addiction, unable to work so in need of state benefits. The police spend a significant amount of time dealing with people that have legally consumed alcohol. And because it's legal its a significantly larger problem that it would be if it was illegal.

[janie48]

Maybe because you don't understand how it will backfire.

I do understand what harm poisonous chemicals can do to the body, and I don't like the idea of something that has the potential to cause instant death being permitted to be sold in a shop like a bag of sweets.

[sutty27]

Not all porn is legal....the demand for that appears to be growing. Those poor police who have to tackle it say the problem is getting worse. The EU has methods to assist with that. Oh...wrong thread for the EU!

 

Correct, child porn is illegal, are you saying its illegality increases its availability and consumption, so it should therefore be legalised?

[Cyclone]

You haven't relied on any, you just keep saying the same things and I keep proving you wrong.

What do you think you've proven?

Do you actually believe that alcohol consumption would rise if it was banned?

Probably not. I expect that the government would be thrown out at the next election.

Banning it would lower consumption and the harm it causes, banning legal highs will lower consumption and the harm they cause, banning guns decreases the number of guns and the harm they cause, banning speeding reduces the number of people speeding and that harm it cause. Banning sugar would lower consumption and the harm it cause.

 

Can you name a single thing that became more popular after banning it?

 

I can prove that drug use falls when it's legalised.

 

The reality is that Portugal’s drug situation has improved significantly in several key areas. Most notably, HIV infections and drug-related deaths have decreased, while the dramatic rise in use feared by some has failed to materialise.

What do you know. Use doesn't increase. Harm falls.

http://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-decriminalisation-portugal-setting-record-straight

https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening#.aL7PpvJcj

 

Some fascinating facts about what the British public think here.

Most agree that "the war on drugs" cannot be won.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/05/-sp-drug-use-is-rising-in-the-uk-but-were-not-addicted

 

The proportion who agree with legalisation or decriminalisation is rising steadily, probably due to the evidence supporting this stance if harm reduction is the aim.

 

Even the police are calling for legalisation these days

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/28/time-end-war-drugs-uk-police-chief

[Shef1985]

Correct, child porn is illegal, are you saying its illegality increases its availability and consumption, so it should therefore be legalised?

 

Ask yourself, is that really what he is saying?

 

I was pointing out the massive demand for something illegal. You seem to believe for something illegal the demand will never grow. I pointed out the fallacy.

[Cyclone]

Two states in the US have legalized cannabis, the effects are being studied. A massive increase in use doesn't seem to be one of them though.

 

http://www.ofm.wa.gov/reports/marijuana_impacts_2015.pdf

 

Interestingly, legalisation seems to have massively reduced the puff and drive accident rate.

 

As a percentage of drivers involved in traffic fatalities who are tested for alcohol and drugs*, there is a 4 percent per year

decrease in proportion of drivers involved in fatal crashes who tested positive for marijuana in combination with other drugs or

alcohol, from a high of 27 percent in 2004 to a low of 15 percent in 2013. No trend was identified among those who were tested

and tested positive for marijuana only, ranging from a high of 7 percent in 2004 to a low of 2 percent in 2013.

 

Drug-only DUI arrests do not differentiate marijuana from other drugs. These arrests moved from an annual high of 1,710 in

2011 to a low of 1,229 in 2014, for an overall decrease of 28 percent during those four years.

[sutty27]

What do you think you've proven?

That you are wrong.

 

 

Probably not.

So you agree then, banning it would lower consumption or do you think consumption would remain unaffected.

 

 

 

I can prove that drug use falls when it's legalised.

 

Not by using Portugal as an example because drugs aren't legal in Portugal.

 

The new law maintained the status of illegality however, the offence was changed from a criminal one, with prison a possible punishment, to an administrative one if the amount possessed was no more than a ten day supply of that substance.

 

What Portugal did was decriminalise and offer treatment instead of prison.

 

---------- Post added 26-05-2016 at 22:03 ----------

 

Ask yourself, is that really what he is saying?

 

I was pointing out the massive demand for something illegal. You seem to believe for something illegal the demand will never grow. I pointed out the fallacy.

 

I have suggested no such thing, banning something doesn't cause demand to grow, banning it causes demand to fall, but demand can still rise whilst its banned, it would just rise faster if the ban was lifted.

 

---------- Post added 26-05-2016 at 22:09 ----------

 

Two states in the US have legalized cannabis, the effects are being studied. A massive increase in use doesn't seem to be one of them though.

 

http://www.ofm.wa.gov/reports/marijuana_impacts_2015.pdf

 

Interestingly, legalisation seems to have massively reduced the puff and drive accident rate.

 

http://www.denverpost.com/2014/12/26/marijuana-use-increases-in-colorado-according-to-new-federal-survey/

Marijuana use increases in Colorado, according to new federal survey.

 

legalising it increased consumption of it.

[El Cid]

 

So you agree then, banning it would lower consumption or do you think consumption would remain unaffected.

 

The addicts that use it already, will still get it, or will get something similar, like class A drugs.

[Phanerothyme]

The government were set to start enforcement of this very badly drafted bill on April 6th, but literally days before, pulled back to redraft it before enacting it today in a reworded form.

 

The act bans the "supply, import or export psychoactive substances; that is, any substance intended for human consumption that is capable of producing a psychoactive effect."

 

Now it reads "psychoactive effect intended to mimic an existing illegal drug" (I'm paraphrasing).

 

So that means things like Nitrous Oxide and Salvia fall outside the remit of this act, even though the HO have said they don't. So it's not even internally consistent. Poppers (Alkyl & Amyl Nitrate) have been specifically excluded in the bill because they're used by MPs.

 

People should know that the NPS Act doesn't criminalise possession at all, and only the production, distribution, supply and importation.

 

It will be interesting to see when the act is tested in court, I suspect it will fall flat on its face, because it has been drafted by idiots.

 

Even the Police think its bobbins.

 

Yes, NPS are dangerous in some cases, whilst in others (1p-LSD, 2-CB-FLY) they are astonishingly safe.

 

The problem is unregulated supply of untested chemicals of unknown purity. The demand for these drugs is completely and totally the result of prohibition of drugs that have, in some cases, a ten thousand year record of largely safe use.

 

The world is waking up to the potential of psychedelic drugs, and the benefits of legalisation and regulation. Cameron and his cronies talked the talk in opposition, but like the opportunist cowards they are, have defaulted to safe-mode.