In-Out vote: Has anyone changed their mind since the campaign started?

[L00b]

Do I see the problem? No. I just see you looking for one.

 

Just turn around that whole post but substitute EU and UK. The EU will have to comply with our laws if they want to sell to us. We had British Standards long before the EU tried to take us over.

You clearly still don't understand.

 

It's got nothing whatsoever to do with the EU or the UK in regulatory compliance with UK or EU trade laws, or the BSI.

 

Insofar as European and British IP is concerned, that post cannot be turned around, legally or logically.

 

The EU does not have anything to comply about with British IP law, no more than the UK has anything to comply about with EU IP law.

 

UK businesses will still be able to obtain EU IP rights after a Brexit. It will just be more cumbersome and expensive, and none of the professional services associated with doing that will be in the UK, so no contribution to the national economy and coffers (that's here the problem is, and it's a legal problem, it's not a trade, standards or protectionist issue, nor an "invented problem", nor a "failure to adapt" or what else).

 

Foreign businesses will still be able to obtain UK IP rights after a Brexit. That will be business as usual, not contributing as much to the national economy and coffers as the above, because it's a lower-value service.

 

Well I did try, but probably got a bit too highbrow, so I apologise.

[foxy lady]

You clearly still don't understand.

 

 

Well I did try, but probably got a bit too highbrow, so I apologise.

 

Oh I do understand. I understand thatyou come across as a pompous oaf trying to talk down to folk. I'm not saying you are a pompous oaf. You just come across as one.

 

Perhaps you shouldn't try so hard to put yourself forward as the "brain of Britain" and "the only one who understands" and maybe you would get more of a listening. By the way I'm voting out. Good riddance to the lot of them.

 

Like I said. But you clearly didn't understand (for which I appologise) every compliance hurdle that prevents the UK trading with Europe will become a compliance hurdle for EU companies wanting to trade here. Good innit?

Edited June 8, 2016 by foxy lady

[panzer1]

As I said in the other thread this all boils down to how big the respective groups are. Let's say 15% of each group will change their decision but stay is 12 million and leave is 15 million or vice versa ( Tom you could be in the change group ). So smaller group loses 1.8 mill and larger group loses 2.25 mill, add the groups back together and the large group becomes 14.55mill and small group becomes 12.45 mill, so large group still wins. There are the undecided which is between 10 to 15% depending on which survey you use,so that's between 3.5 to 4.8 mill. Within all groups are those that will not vote for various reasons, my son is a remain cos " his bird wants to work in Sweden as a florist" but I guarantee he will not get off his bum and vote.

Then there those who never intending voting. So it depends on the size of the group and the determination to vote, brexiters are more determined but are they the bigger group, only time will tell.

By the way I am still out.

[PeteMorris]

You're missing the maintained requirement of UK businesses exporting to the EU for EU rights.

 

Which I'd have thought was of prime importance to UK exporters, considering the UK/EU trade 'imbalance' that Brexiters are never shy of positing in their economical arguments.

UK applicants can't replace an EU trade mark or design covering the EU market (with or without the UK) with a UK trade mark or design covering the UK alone.

 

UK and foreign applicants can always file an additional UK trade mark application once the UK is out of the EU TM system of course, to cover the UK market. But the total cost differential is -ballpark- currently about 30%, so a 70% loss in business value to UK service providers. And a 30% extra cost for UK businesses who until now covered the UK as part of their EU TM.

 

They could replace an EU trademark with a French-only and/or German-only trademark...but by the time they've applied and prosecuted a FR and a DE to registration, it'd be cheaper to do an EU (which gives you the remaining 26 countries to boot). That's how and why EU TM filings have rocketed in years gone, and why UK and foreign applicants will still be filing them hand over first after a Brexit.

 

Now do you see the problem?

It's common knowledge on here. Intellectual property legal services. If you want to file a patent, a trade mark, a design, and/or obtain advice about these, and/or help with transfer and licensing, and/or bash infringers with them, in the UK or wherever else, you come to the likes of us.

There is no other workaround to losing the capacity to file international designs and EU trade marks and designs from the UK, than to move shop into what remains of the EU. It shouldn't mean packing up shop in the UK, but it absolutely means reduced domestic business level - by at least as much as is automatically surrendered.

 

So the choice is fairly simple: do nothing and let 30% of the business go to what remains of the EU; or move to the EU to try and keep a hold of it. The first one means redundancies. The second one also does, unless the staff is suitably qualified for, and agreeable to, relocation. In either case, less taxable activity in the UK.

 

Unless of course UK and foreign businesses develop a sudden and mass urge to file UK patents, trade marks and designs relative to the last 50-odd years. Which, after 15 years in the game, I can't see happening, since the UK IP system is already a global benchmark of openness, accessibility and cost-effectiveness.

 

The main problem to all this, is should Brexit happen. You can't blame anyone who voted for Brexit. However, you 'can' blame the myriad of reasons people voted for Brexit, and that's the EU itself.

 

I would hazard a guess, and yes it's only a guess, but it wouldn't surprise me if the EU is (in time) is proven to be as corrupt as FIFA, and possibly worse.

 

That's where the blame lies.

[panzer1]

Although I hope we leave, project fear is swaying a lot of people. However I do agree with Farage in that I think even if we stay the EUs days are numbered. When the new budget demand comes out post brexit to the + contributors UK,Germany etc there will be open revolt. Greece will be relegated to tier 2 Eu with us so that it does not infect the eurozone.

[Tomjames]

As I said in the other thread this all boils down to how big the respective groups are. Let's say 15% of each group will change their decision but stay is 12 million and leave is 15 million or vice versa ( Tom you could be in the change group ). So smaller group loses 1.8 mill and larger group loses 2.25 mill, add the groups back together and the large group becomes 14.55mill and small group becomes 12.45 mill, so large group still wins. There are the undecided which is between 10 to 15% depending on which survey you use,so that's between 3.5 to 4.8 mill. Within all groups are those that will not vote for various reasons, my son is a remain cos " his bird wants to work in Sweden as a florist" but I guarantee he will not get off his bum and vote.

Then there those who never intending voting. So it depends on the size of the group and the determination to vote, brexiters are more determined but are they the bigger group, only time will tell.

By the way I am still out.

 

Will leave the decision up to the 23rd. It's about voting right, in light of the facts.

[mossdog]

.........ask yourself this!.......who are the EU?........quite simply, the Goose-steppers and their Poodles!,pretty much the rest are lame ducks that the afore mentioned must rue the day they ever dreamed about getting into bed with.

Yes I drive a Merc' and drink fine Burgundy but prefer to keep it at that!.......however did we survive before the EU? I could go on but fear it's too much for wet ears.

[Shef1985]

.........ask yourself this!.......who are the EU?........quite simply, the Goose-steppers and their Poodles!,pretty much the rest are lame ducks that the afore mentioned must rue the day they ever dreamed about getting into bed with.

Yes I drive a Merc' and drink fine Burgundy but prefer to keep it at that!.......however did we survive before the EU? I could go on but fear it's too much for wet ears.

 

Is the UK a goose stepper or a poodle in your Basil Fawlty analogy??

[unbeliever]

Is the UK a goose stepper or a poodle in your Basil Fawlty analogy??

 

We've had a healthy debate on here I think.

Yourself and L00b especially have been very good debate opponents.

 

You've never come close to changing my mind, but what does make me doubt myself is some of the ridiculous nonsense the other Brexiters come out with on here. I was tempted to vote remain just to avoid being associated with them.

[Shef1985]

We've had a healthy debate on here I think.

Yourself and L00b especially have been very good debate opponents.

 

You've never come close to changing my mind, but what does make me doubt myself is some of the ridiculous nonsense the other Brexiters come out with on here. I was tempted to vote remain just to avoid being associated with them.

 

I'm slightly concerned that in a few weeks there's going to be an Airbus flying around missing the part that George Osbourne just pulled out of his pocket

 

:-s