Who do UKIP represent?

[unbeliever]

If you don't think that the working class has benefitted from the right to unionise, or the labour movement in general, then you don't know much about history.

 

Free education has already gone (tuition fees etc.), and UKIP certainly won't be bringing it back.

 

Free university education was affordable when it was much more selective.

If you want to go back to only 5% of people going to university, it can be free again. Which do you prefer?

 

The right to unionise is very important. The right not to unionise is more under threat in recent history. All the big battles of the labour movement have been won. Nobody is taking away the right to collective bargaining or the right to organise in general.

If the unions want the right to strike endlessly without due process they can have it. As long as the right to fire those on strike is restored.

[altus]

Free university education was affordable when it was much more selective.

If you want to go back to only 5% of people going to university, it can be free again.

We need a more highly educated workforce these days. Returning to only 5% going to university means we'll have to import more educated people from abroad to do the better paid jobs.

[Zamo]

So Nigel Farage doesn't think Romania should have been allowed to join the EU because of their treatment of the Roma.

 

He'll gladly take the votes of people that hate the Roma here though won't he?

 

Do you think Labour and the Tories don't receive vote from racists and people who hate the Roma? What mechanism do they use to reject the votes of such people? In fact, don't both parties actively try to win votes from UKIP support? Why are they allowed to take votes from such people without it reflecting on their character?

 

UKIP support is (in the main) made up of people who want an end to mass immigration AND are no longer willing to vote for any of the mainstream parties that have for so long ignored their immigration concerns and wishes. The number of people who meet both criteria has reached approximately 4 million and the number is growing because concerns continue to be ignored and so too the frustration this causes. Smearing UKIP as a party for racists may slow the flow to it but the flow continues none-the-less.

 

Politics is becoming dangerously polarised because of the arrogance of the ruling Liberal/Left elite who have abandoned the centre ground and refused to compromise their beliefs and policies when it comes to immigration. They have left people with immigration concerns nowhere to go other than to the right but they think they can control this by continuously shouting 'racist!'. It isn't working and will ultimately fail. The shift to the right is plain to see across many parts of Europe, and in the US, and, unless there is a move back to the centre, the balance of power will eventually shift. And UKIP's tame and reasonable policies will be the least of anyone's worries when that happens.

[panzer1]

Spot on zamo

[Shef1985]

Do you think Labour and the Tories don't receive vote from racists and people who hate the Roma? What mechanism do they use to reject the votes of such people? In fact, don't both parties actively try to win votes from UKIP support? Why are they allowed to take votes from such people without it reflecting on their character?

 

UKIP support is (in the main) made up of people who want an end to mass immigration AND are no longer willing to vote for any of the mainstream parties that have for so long ignored their immigration concerns and wishes. The number of people who meet both criteria has reached approximately 4 million and the number is growing because concerns continue to be ignored and so too the frustration this causes. Smearing UKIP as a party for racists may slow the flow to it but the flow continues none-the-less.

 

Politics is becoming dangerously polarised because of the arrogance of the ruling Liberal/Left elite who have abandoned the centre ground and refused to compromise their beliefs and policies when it comes to immigration. They have left people with immigration concerns nowhere to go other than to the right but they think they can control this by continuously shouting 'racist!'. It isn't working and will ultimately fail. The shift to the right is plain to see across many parts of Europe, and in the US, and, unless there is a move back to the centre, the balance of power will eventually shift. And UKIP's tame and reasonable policies will be the least of anyone's worries when that happens.

 

Kudos for missing the point in the post entirely.

Farage will openly state on TV Romania mistreats Roma and shouldn't have been allowed in the EU as a result. He will then go in the Ball Inn and listen to the locals complain (justifiably) about the Roma, safe in the knowledge he has their vote because they think he will sort it out. How exactly? Send them back to a country he says persecuted them? The post is about his hypocrisy.

 

The rest of your thesis is interesting. But wrong. It has never been taboo to talk about immigration for fear of being called racist. It's a myth. Since Blair effectively opened the doors show me a Daily Mail or a Question Time etc etc where immigration concerns haven't been raised. UKIP gets votes because they have strong immigration policies but don't pretend for one second they were the first people to have the balls to talk about it!

Edited June 13, 2016 by Shef1985

[Zamo]

Kudos for missing the point in the post entirely.

Farage will openly state on TV Romania mistreats Roma and shouldn't have been allowed in the EU as a result. He will then go in the Ball Inn and listen to the locals complain (justifiably) about the Roma, safe in the knowledge he has their vote because they think he will sort it out. How exactly? Send them back to a country he says persecuted them? The post is about his hypocrisy.

 

There is nothing hypocritical about it. You can criticise Romania for their treatment of the Roma and still want an immigration policy that would bar entry to people who will not make a positive contribution.

 

You said "He'll gladly take the votes of people that hate the Roma here though won't he?" but didn't criticise Cameron or Corbyn who are also glad to take such votes. That's hypocritical.

 

The rest of your thesis is interesting. But wrong. It has never been taboo to talk about immigration for fear of being called racist. It's a myth. Since Blair effectively opened the doors show me a Daily Mail or a Question Time etc etc where immigration concerns haven't been raised. UKIP gets votes because they have strong immigration policies but don't pretend for one second they were the first people to have the balls to talk about it!

 

I didn't say in my post that it was a taboo to talk about immigration for fear of being called a racist. I said it was the tactic deployed time and time again (despite failing) by those who want to stop the debate and/or excuse the ignoring of majority opinion re immigration. You'll see it all over these boards.

 

Whatever the excuse used for ignoring the will of the majority it is back firing. In the UK is has fuelled the rise of UKIP, across Europe it is fuelling seriously far right parties and in the US it is leading to popular support for policy proposals such as no more Muslims. Parties like UKIP represent ignored people who have given up on the mainstream political parties... it is a large and growing group.

[mafya]

There is nothing hypocritical about it. You can criticise Romania for their treatment of the Roma and still want an immigration policy that would bar entry to people who will not make a positive contribution.

 

You said "He'll gladly take the votes of people that hate the Roma here though won't he?" but didn't criticise Cameron or Corbyn who are also glad to take such votes. That's hypocritical.

 

 

 

I didn't say in my post that it was a taboo to talk about immigration for fear of being called a racist. I said it was the tactic deployed time and time again (despite failing) by those who want to stop the debate and/or excuse the ignoring of majority opinion re immigration. You'll see it all over these boards.

 

Whatever the excuse used for ignoring the will of the majority it is back firing. In the UK is has fuelled the rise of UKIP, across Europe it is fuelling seriously far right parties and in the US it is leading to popular support for policy proposals such as no more Muslims. Parties like UKIP represent ignored people who have given up on the mainstream political parties... it is a large and growing group.

 

Talking about immigration doesn't get you called a racist unless you go about it in a racist way....

[Shef1985]

There is nothing hypocritical about it. You can criticise Romania for their treatment of the Roma and still want an immigration policy that would bar entry to people who will not make a positive contribution.

 

You said "He'll gladly take the votes of people that hate the Roma here though won't he?" but didn't criticise Cameron or Corbyn who are also glad to take such votes. That's hypocritical.

 

Ok Zamo, what is Nigel Farage's solution to the problem of Roma here? Do UKIP voters not hope he will send them all back? If he did, he would be sending them back a country he says persecutes Roma. That, I am afraid you will find, is hypocritical!

 

I didn't say in my post that it was a taboo to talk about immigration for fear of being called a racist. I said it was the tactic deployed time and time again (despite failing) by those who want to stop the debate and/or excuse the ignoring of majority opinion re immigration. You'll see it all over these boards.

 

Whatever the excuse used for ignoring the will of the majority it is back firing. In the UK is has fuelled the rise of UKIP, across Europe it is fuelling seriously far right parties and in the US it is leading to popular support for policy proposals such as no more Muslims. Parties like UKIP represent ignored people who have given up on the mainstream political parties... it is a large and growing group.

 

You said 'They have left people with immigration concerns nowhere to go other than to the right but they think they can control this by continuously shouting 'racist!'.

 

That simply isn't true and quite why you think 'these boards' have any influence in politics is rather bizarre. The complaints about immigration to the mainstream parties have not been ignored because those parties think the electorate is racist, its because those parties see the value in immigration. But they don't shout down everyone as racist! That's just something the far right would have you believe.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Shef1985

[crazyhorse]

 

UKIP support is (in the main) made up of people who want an end to mass immigration AND are no longer willing to vote for any of the mainstream parties that have for so long ignored their immigration concerns and wishes. The number of people who meet both criteria has reached approximately 4 million and the number is growing because concerns continue to be ignored and so too the frustration this causes. Smearing UKIP as a party for racists may slow the flow to it but the flow continues none-the-less.

 

Politics is becoming dangerously polarised because of the arrogance of the ruling Liberal/Left elite who have abandoned the centre ground and refused to compromise their beliefs and policies when it comes to immigration. They have left people with immigration concerns nowhere to go other than to the right but they think they can control this by continuously shouting 'racist!'. It isn't working and will ultimately fail. The shift to the right is plain to see across many parts of Europe, and in the US, and, unless there is a move back to the centre, the balance of power will eventually shift. And UKIP's tame and reasonable policies will be the least of anyone's worries when that happens.

 

Very true.

Who is a typical UKIP supporter?...never who you think they are.

[El Cid]

 

Whatever the excuse used for ignoring the will of the majority it is back firing. In the UK is has fuelled the rise of UKIP, across Europe it is fuelling seriously far right parties and in the US it is leading to popular support for policy proposals such as no more Muslims. Parties like UKIP represent ignored people who have given up on the mainstream political parties... it is a large and growing group.

 

Even UKIP have struggled with the immigration issue. In the 2010 election, it seemed like the Tories wanted lower immigration than UKIP.

UKIP talked positively about people being needed in the UK to work. Its a tricky issue, because the Tories make promise about building more house and being able to see your doctor, 24/7, so people vote Tory.

 

Labour in a mess, things could go really bad for the UK.