Jim Graham Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) To be fair to Corbyn, it's not really his fault. Labour have long since ceased to be the representatives of the working poor and switched to being the representatives of the public sector workers (and of course their unions). They still talk about the poor, but they do not take their lead from the poor. It's all about what the Guardian reading middle-class think is best for the poor, rather than what the poor themselves want. The Guardian reading middle-class always seem to think that the best thing for the poor is to spend lots of taxpayers' money employing people like themselves to "help" the poor by providing services that are "good for them". You absolutely hit the nail square on the head. The Labour Party are now the party of middle-class, liberal do-gooders sneering at the poorest but happy to use them as a meal ticket at public expense. And, as such, they have no incentive to lift anyone out of poverty, ignorance, obesity, poor health, bad housing or inequality because they'll be doing themselves out of a job. The party of the welfare state has learned to use it and abuse it for personal gain. _______ Edited July 28, 2016 by Jim Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 That's probably not a bad idea. I heard Owen Smith start to set out his policies the other day. I'm not sure whether his left wing agenda was to try to appeal to the party Corbynistas or whether he really was that far divorced from reality. He seems to have forgotten that Labour simply can't be trusted on the economy and his policies were, SPEND... IGNORE THE DEBT...BORROW....BORROW SOME MORE. There lies the problem. Come election time they will have to dream up some lunatic policies to appeal to their core support and regular voters will as usual run a mile in the opposite direction. Austerity was a Conservative choice as a way forwards, it wasn't the only choice and it hasn't succeeded. There is a good argument that borrowing some money for various projects like building and infrastructure will get the economy moving, provide real jobs and therefore bring in more tax revenue, as well as create a positive mindset. This world runs entirely on debt. The banks have deliberately seen to that, because that's the way they like it.... In spite of the crash they still can't lend it fast enough. They've got to get their mega bonuses from somewhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Austerity was a Conservative choice as a way forwards, it wasn't the only choice and it hasn't succeeded. There is a good argument that borrowing some money for various projects like building and infrastructure will get the economy moving, provide real jobs and therefore bring in more tax revenue, as well as create a positive mindset. This world runs entirely on debt. The banks have deliberately seen to that, because that's the way they like it.... In spite of the crash they still can't lend it fast enough. They've got to get their mega bonuses from somewhere.... There's a world of difference between well chosen infrastructure spending and randomly hosing the public sector with money and calling it "investment". Gordon Brown did the latter and now people are understandable highly sceptical when politicians (particularly Labour) talk about using state spending to boost growth. I'm going to overlook your routine socialist capitalism bashing as there was actually a point in there worth commenting on. ---------- Post added 28-07-2016 at 12:34 ---------- You absolutely hit the nail square on the head. The Labour Party are now the party of middle-class, liberal do-gooders sneering at the poorest but happy to use them as a meal ticket at public expense. And, as such, they have no incentive to lift anyone out of poverty, ignorance, obesity, poor health, bad housing or inequality because they'll be doing themselves out of a job. The party of the welfare state has learned to use it and abuse it for personal gain. _______ Sad isn't it. They really did a lot of good in the mid-part of the 20th century. Perhaps it's time to let it collapse and hope something more honest and useful emerges from the ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Austerity was a Conservative choice as a way forwards, it wasn't the only choice and it hasn't succeeded. There is a good argument that borrowing some money for various projects like building and infrastructure will get the economy moving, provide real jobs and therefore bring in more tax revenue, as well as create a positive mindset. This world runs entirely on debt. The banks have deliberately seen to that, because that's the way they like it.... In spite of the crash they still can't lend it fast enough. They've got to get their mega bonuses from somewhere.... Austerity wasn't a Conservative choice. It was a necessity imposed on them when they inherited a massive debt and an unsustainable public sector spending deficit. You cannot carry on spending £175 billion more than you earn each year. The population of the UK understand this which is why they don't trust Labour with the economy. Owen Smith's speach was a timely reminder of Labour's policies as Corbyn has kept them out of the public eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 To be fair to Corbyn, it's not really his fault. Labour have long since ceased to be the representatives of the working poor and switched to being the representatives of the public sector workers (and of course their unions). New Labour just claimed to be to the left of the Tories, that used to be enough. Even the Tories dont want poor people, but they just dont know how to change them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Just because I didn't respond to that specific point about Corbyn's Facebook page, doesn't mean in the slightest that I missed it.? Although I didn't agree with it....The second point about Corbyn recruiting the wrong type of people was so completely untrue that that had to be corrected first... If you don't agree that Corbyn is silent by choice, and you still claim he is being ignored by the media, please explain how the media have managed to extend their reach sufficiently to make him appear silent on Facebook. I'm waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjodeano Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 It is because he isn't saying anything not that he is being ignored. I am a member of his Facebook page where he can say what he wants at any time and he hasn't said anything worth writing about for weeks. He is ruining our party by turning it into a laughing stock full of stuck up middle class graduates and class warriors who are treating working class Labour voters as if they are stupid. Jukes x So, because he has not posted on facebook for ages, you have deducted that he isnt saying anything, people have a life other than facebook, its not the end of the world you know, i have been on many politicians FB page and they havent updated it for months does it really matter. In case you hadnt noticed, Corbyn is out all the time at meetings and seminars, if he isnt at these he will be at good causes, he must be one of the most hardworking MP's out there, you will struggle to find one who does more work, the media only show you what they want, and you say because he hasnt put anything on FB he has nothing to say...:huh: It doesn't appear that you think that I am due any respect despite being a fully paid up member for 12 years, stood in nearly as many elections, delivered tens of thousands of leaflets and knocked on thousands of doors. Please say what you have done for the party so that we know why your opinion is due more respect than mine. Jukes x Who says i think my opinion is due more respect than yours.? i never said that? What i did say is "you dont have a clue" and you cant have a clue if you think that..."He is ruining our party by turning it into a laughing stock full of stuck up middle class graduates"....how has he done that,? if it is full of middle class graduates, they were there before he got elected, please explain how its his fault.? as for taking out leaflets and knocking on doors thats your choice, i have only recently returned to Labour after leaving the party for years, we have not had a socialist leader for years, so i have felt they never represented me for years, but if you want to go out canvassing for Labour, whether they have a socialist leader or a Tory lite, then that is up to you, just because it has a red rosette and Labour on the front, doesnt always mean it Labour you know If you don't agree that Corbyn is silent by choice, and you still claim he is being ignored by the media, please explain how the media have managed to extend their reach sufficiently to make him appear silent on Facebook. I bet even you cant believe what you have posted there, that is complete twaddle, going out and meeting people is what counts, not how much he updates his FB page:huh: I'm waiting. Sorry, but some of us have to work for a living, we can not access Sheffield forum all day long ---------- Post added 28-07-2016 at 14:56 ---------- You absolutely did. . i absolutely did not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) So, because he has not posted on facebook for ages, you have deducted that he isnt saying anything, people have a life other than facebook, its not the end of the world you know, i have been on many politicians FB page and they havent updated it for months does it really matter. In case you hadnt noticed, Corbyn is out all the time at meetings and seminars, if he isnt at these he will be at good causes, he must be one of the most hardworking MP's out there, you will struggle to find one who does more work, the media only show you what they want, and you say because he hasnt put anything on FB he has nothing to say...:huh: Who says i think my opinion is due more respect than yours.? i never said that? What i did say is "you dont have a clue" and you cant have a clue if you think that..."He is ruining our party by turning it into a laughing stock full of stuck up middle class graduates"....how has he done that,? if it is full of middle class graduates, they were there before he got elected, please explain how its his fault.? as for taking out leaflets and knocking on doors thats your choice, i have only recently returned to Labour after leaving the party for years, we have not had a socialist leader for years, so i have felt they never represented me for years, but if you want to go out canvassing for Labour, whether they have a socialist leader or a Tory lite, then that is up to you, just because it has a red rosette and Labour on the front, doesnt always mean it Labour you know I bet even you cant believe what you have posted there, that is complete twaddle, going out and meeting people is what counts, not how much he updates his FB page:huh: Sorry, but some of us have to work for a living, we can not access Sheffield forum all day long ---------- Post added 28-07-2016 at 14:56 ---------- i absolutely did not What drivel. He's silent. You can't get out of that. If he had something to say that the press weren't reporting, he'd use social media. If he's not the kind of person who likes to get the message out with social media why does he have a Facebook page. You're showing exactly the kind of nonsense pseudo-logic and pathetic evasion that I'd expect from a Corbyn supporter. I really hope your guy wins. I'll be laughing for weeks as I watch your party destroy itself. Edited July 28, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjodeano Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 What drivel. He's silent. You can't get out of that. If he had something to say that the press weren't reporting, he'd use social media. If he's not the kind of person who likes to get the message out with social media why does he have a Facebook page. You're showing exactly the kind of nonsense pseudo-logic and pathetic evasion that I'd expect from a Corbyn supporter. I really hope your guy wins. I'll be laughing for weeks as I watch your party destroy itself. I have just looked at his FB account, he has made four posts in the last 24 hours.? how many posts in a 24 hour period does he have to make before he becomes none quiet :huh: so all that gibberish about ...."showing exactly the kind of nonsense pseudo-logic and pathetic evasion that I'd expect from a Corbyn supporter".now makes you look pretty ............erm silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 What drivel. He's silent. You can't get out of that. If he had something to say that the press weren't reporting, he'd use social media. If he's not the kind of person who likes to get the message out with social media why does he have a Facebook page. You're showing exactly the kind of nonsense pseudo-logic and pathetic evasion that I'd expect from a Corbyn supporter. I really hope your guy wins. I'll be laughing for weeks as I watch your party destroy itself. One step closer. The end is nigh. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36909862 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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