banjodeano Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Constituency Labour Party in Manchester suspended over allegations of bullying and vote fraud. We could be witnessing the destruction of a political party in amazing fashion at this rate. Crikey me, and we have the Tories investigated for election fraud as well... http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-squirms-under-grilling-8171785 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Crikey me, and we have the Tories investigated for election fraud as well... http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-squirms-under-grilling-8171785 If proven it's highly likely David Cameron will face a vote of no confidence, lose overwhelmingly, refuse to resign, face a leadership challenge, threaten to sue his own party and get Diane Abbott to fight his corner. And someone will smash a few windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Having read the relevant bit of the labour party rulebook from a link on the BBC news website, I think it is absolutely clear that it is only the challengers who are required to be nominated by a minimum number of MPs and MEPs. Corbyn should get a bye (unless there is some contradictory words in a different part of the rulebook). There can be no valid reason why the NEC are taking so long to decide. Unless this is yet another example of always being able to find a lawyer who agrees with your opinion, especially when you are prepared to pay them accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 the NEC vote hasn't come in yet but Corbyn won't even resign if the NEC rules he needs to find the 51 nominations to stand (which of course he won't be able to find). Corbyn could still be insisting he is leader when the leadership campaign to determine his successor starts without him, and keeps insisting he is leader, while it is going on. Corbyn might not even resign when his party elects another leader to replace him in a couple of months and the new leader stands at the opposition despatch box at PMQ's. so it is not inconceivable, if that happens, that Labour could have two leaders all at once. One leader which the party elects. And another one - Corbyn - who just thinks he is the leader. there being two people who both claim to be the leaders of the same political party, has never happened before. Even in 1940, when Winston Churchill became Prime Minister without actually being the Leader of the Conservative Party, Churchill never claimed to be leader. Chamberlain stopped being Prime Minister. But Chamberlain was still Leader of the Conservative Party until the day he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjodeano Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Having read the relevant bit of the labour party rulebook from a link on the BBC news website, I think it is absolutely clear that it is only the challengers who are required to be nominated by a minimum number of MPs and MEPs. Corbyn should get a bye (unless there is some contradictory words in a different part of the rulebook). There can be no valid reason why the NEC are taking so long to decide. Unless this is yet another example of always being able to find a lawyer who agrees with your opinion, especially when you are prepared to pay them accordingly. Another excellent post Easter...i have also read it, and its crystal clear. What i find amazing is, why half of the nec seem to want to keep him off the ballot, if you are in the position that they are in, you have to go what is correct and right, regardless of your loyalties, if they try to keep him off the ballot, then its a sad sad reflection on them ---------- Post added 12-07-2016 at 19:46 ---------- the NEC vote hasn't come in yet but Corbyn won't even resign if the NEC rules he needs to find the 51 nominations to stand (which of course he won't be able to find). Corbyn could still be insisting he is leader when the leadership campaign to determine his successor starts without him, and keeps insisting he is leader, while it is going on. Corbyn might not even resign when his party elects another leader to replace him in a couple of months and the new leader stands at the opposition despatch box at PMQ's. so it is not inconceivable, if that happens, that Labour could have two leaders all at once. One leader which the party elects. And another one - Corbyn - who just thinks he is the leader. there being two people who both claim to be the leaders of the same political party, has never happened before. Even in 1940, when Winston Churchill became Prime Minister without actually being the Leader of the Conservative Party, Churchill never claimed to be leader. Chamberlain stopped being Prime Minister. But Chamberlain was still Leader of the Conservative Party until the day he died. but he doesnt...its clear cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blake Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 I think it is absolutely clear that it is only the challengers who are required to be nominated by a minimum number of MPs and MEPs. me too except not absolutely clear, just clear. But I wouldn't be surprised if they rule that he does need the nominations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Having read the relevant bit of the labour party rulebook from a link on the BBC news website, I think it is absolutely clear that it is only the challengers who are required to be nominated by a minimum number of MPs and MEPs. Corbyn should get a bye (unless there is some contradictory words in a different part of the rulebook). There can be no valid reason why the NEC are taking so long to decide. Unless this is yet another example of always being able to find a lawyer who agrees with your opinion, especially when you are prepared to pay them accordingly. Agreed. It seems quite clear he has no need to find 51 backers. His name must be on the ballot. Might as well split the Party now. No need to waste months campaigning; JC will win again. Anna, Banjo, that doesn't make him electable as PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 Having read the relevant bit of the labour party rulebook from a link on the BBC news website, I think it is absolutely clear that it is only the challengers who are required to be nominated by a minimum number of MPs and MEPs. Corbyn should get a bye (unless there is some contradictory words in a different part of the rulebook). There can be no valid reason why the NEC are taking so long to decide. Unless this is yet another example of always being able to find a lawyer who agrees with your opinion, especially when you are prepared to pay them accordingly. i too have read the bits on various websites about this and there is no explicit mention about whether or not the incumbent does or does not need to be nominated. You are left with arguing about words and whether the lack of words is important. it's something lawyers do very well. given the lack of an explicit statement then it's not surprising that there are differening opinions. regardless of the outcome of this pantomime, let's hope that rule is made much clearer. ---------- Post added 12-07-2016 at 19:49 ---------- Agreed. It seems quite clear he has no need to find 51 backers. His name must be on the ballot. Might as well split the Party now. No need to waste months campaigning; JC will win again. Anna, Banjo, that doesn't make him electable as PM. i'm not sure he will win and if he does then it doesn't solve the problem of his relationship with the rest of his party and the wider country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) i too have read the bits on various websites about this and there is no explicit mention about whether or not the incumbent does or does not need to be nominated. You are left with arguing about words and whether the lack of words is important. it's something lawyers do very well. given the lack of an explicit statement then it's not surprising that there are differening opinions. regardless of the outcome of this pantomime, let's hope that rule is made much clearer. Jeremy will sue if he loses tonight. Posted before you finished your post, sorry. Agree with your last paragraph. Him winning another leadership race would solve nothing. Hence, split the Party now. Edited July 12, 2016 by Radan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 the NEC vote hasn't come in yet but Corbyn won't even resign if the NEC rules he needs to find the 51 nominations to stand (which of course he won't be able to find). Corbyn could still be insisting he is leader when the leadership campaign to determine his successor starts without him, and keeps insisting he is leader, while it is going on. Corbyn might not even resign when his party elects another leader to replace him in a couple of months and the new leader stands at the opposition despatch box at PMQ's. so it is not inconceivable, if that happens, that Labour could have two leaders all at once. One leader which the party elects. And another one - Corbyn - who just thinks he is the leader. there being two people who both claim to be the leaders of the same political party, has never happened before. Even in 1940, when Winston Churchill became Prime Minister without actually being the Leader of the Conservative Party, Churchill never claimed to be leader. Chamberlain stopped being Prime Minister. But Chamberlain was still Leader of the Conservative Party until the day he died. I think the rule book can only be interpreted as meaning that the leader does not need to be nominated again by MPs. If the NEC reject this view, then I think he will go to court, as threatened, and I think he would win. I don't rate Corbyn, but in this instance he is right when he says it is an attempted stitch up. If he is allowed to stand, then he will win the membership vote, again. NEC about to vote (after 6 hours discussion), according to Ch 4 news. Edit. Just come up on the breaking news banner - he is being allowed to stand without nomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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