andyofborg Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) By not referring to the leader at all, there is clearly no requirement for him to be nominated. The challengers are required to be nominated. Had everyone been required to be nominated, it would have said everyone, or more likely "the candidates". By referring to the challengers (and nobody else) it clearly only meant the challengers. Nomination doesn't apply to anyone else. maybe maybe not, this is why there has been so much argument about this ---------- Post added 12-07-2016 at 23:43 ---------- Then why do you think Corbyn won? basically because the NEC is slightly tilted in favour of the corbyn wing of the party and because the wording of the rule is so vague that a legal challenge may or may not have succeeeded Edited July 12, 2016 by andyofborg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 maybe maybe not, this is why there has been so much argument about this ---------- Post added 12-07-2016 at 23:43 ---------- basically because the NEC is slightly tilted in favour of the corbyn wing of the party and because the wording of the rule is so vague that a legal challenge may or may not have succeeeded You can be sure it will be changed so there's no confusion next time. Anyway, those rule changes about whom can vote in the leadership election will be the next bone of contention. Always fun with Labour these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) .....I don't think whoever drafted the Labour election rulebook had any idea, or could possibly have envisaged, that it would be possible for a Labour party leader not to be able to get such a very small fraction of Labour MP's to even want them to continue as Labour party leader and have 80% of the parliamentary party refuse, if offered, to sign his or her nomination papers. With it being so unbelievable a notion, there was no need to stress that an incumbent Labour leader, in order to stand again as leader, had to get nominated by at least a very small fraction of MP's just like any other 'candidate'. Nor did they envisage a situation where the majority of the rank and file members would disagree so vehemently with current Labour MPs. I am a rank and file member, and the epitome of a middle of the road average person and that goes for my vote too. I have voted for both Labour and Conservative in my time, but am a Lib Dem by nature and have voted for them most often. I am reasonably intelligent, (teacher by profession,) and reasonably informed about politics by as many methods as I can, to try and get a full picture of what's going on. I am not a 'Moron' thankyouverymuch, I am not stupid, had never heard of 'Momentum' until a couple of weeks ago, I am not a rabid 'leftie' nor a 'party activist'. Like I said, I am a very ordinary floating voter. I like Jeremy Corbyn because his views on the world and Britain in particular, generally accord with my own, and being a very average person, I think they will accord with a very large number of the general population - which is why his real opponents are so anxious that the general population get to hear very little of them. Nearly everything I know about Jeremy Corbyn I have learned from the internet and going to see him in situ. Very notably not via anything controlled by the media moguls who interestingly not only have absolutely nothing good to say about a decent, honest politician, but has gone out of its way to corrupt his message, lie about his affilliations, and besmirch him at every possible opportunity in the mainstream media. Remember "He that controls the media, controls the minds of the masses" When I saw how much the media message diverged from what I knew to be true is when I joined the Labour Party to have my vote of confidence in Corbyn, And I shall unjoin just as quickly if Jeremy gets voted out. And so I suspect will many, many others. Labour will probably be out of office for years anyway. Does anybody seriously think Angela Eagle is the best Labour has to offer as leader? Ask yourself, what's going on there? Now to me, this is no longer just about Jeremy Corbyn, but something much deeper and more sinister. It's about who controls/choses the government of this country. Is it the electorate or the media? This is the revolution people, in a typical British way, not with blood on the streets, but a battle for hearts and minds of the people. The media got a kicking in the referendum, when the electorate didn't vote the way it was supposed to vote, and the elite didn't like it. Is it just a coincidence that Labour chose to mount a leadership battle straight after, at the most inopportune time, when all eyes should have been on Brexit and the Conservative party? Or is it about the elite trying to reassert control. Should the government of the day be doing the bidding of the people who elected it and for their well being, or should it be run by the elite, for the elite? For me, and many others that's really what this Labour election battle is all about. Edited July 13, 2016 by Anna B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Nor did they envisage a situation where the majority of the rank and file members would disagree so vehemently with current Labour MPs. I am a rank and file member, and the epitome of a middle of the road average person and that goes for my vote too. I have voted for both Labour and Conservative in my time, but am a Lib Dem by nature and have voted for them most often. I am reasonably intelligent, (teacher by profession,) and reasonably informed about politics by as many methods as I can, to try and get a full picture of what's going on. I am not a 'Moron' thankyouverymuch, I am not stupid, had never heard of 'Momentum' until a couple of weeks ago, I am not a rabid 'leftie' nor a 'party activist'. Like I said, I am a very ordinary floating voter. I like Jeremy Corbyn because his views on the world and Britain in particular, generally accord with my own, and being a very average person, I think they will accord with a very large number of the general population - which is why his real opponents are so anxious that the general population get to hear very little of them. Nearly everything I know about Jeremy Corbyn I have learned from the internet and going to see him in situ. Very notably not via anything controlled by the media moguls who interestingly not only have absolutely nothing good to say about a decent, honest politician, but has gone out of its way to corrupt his message, lie about his affilliations, and besmirch him at every possible opportunity in the mainstream media. Remember "He that controls the media, controls the minds of the masses" When I saw how much the media message diverged from what I knew to be true is when I joined the Labour Party to have my vote of confidence in Corbyn, And I shall unjoin just as quickly if Jeremy gets voted out. And so I suspect will many, many others. Labour will probably be out of office for years anyway. Does anybody seriously think Angela Eagle is the best Labour has to offer as leader? Ask yourself, what's going on there? Now to me, this is no longer just about Jeremy Corbyn, but something much deeper and more sinister. It's about who controls/choses the government of this country. Is it the electorate or the media? This is the revolution people, in a typical British way, not with blood on the streets, but a battle for hearts and minds of the people. The media got a kicking in the referendum, when the electorate didn't vote the way it was supposed to vote, and the elite didn't like it. Is it just a coincidence that Labour chose to mount a leadership battle straight after, at the most inopportune time, when all eyes should have been on Brexit and the Conservative party? Or is it about the elite trying to reassert control. Should the government of the day be doing the bidding of the people who elected it and for their well being, or should it be run by the elite, for the elite? For me, and many others that's really what this Labour election battle is all about. Which media took the kicking? Pro or Anti EU? Pro, such as the Mail on Sunday or Anti such as the Daily Mail? Or do you mean the Murdoch media? Like the Pro-EU Times and the Anti-EU Sun? If the media, Murdoch especially, is so powerful how come Murdoch came out in support for Gove yet Gove finished a dismal third? Isn't that a rather **** poor display of power? What revolution? The Tories have a new leader, unchallenged and with no mandate, and the Opposition (supposed to represent normal people) has absolutely imploded. Hardly Tiananmen Square is it? Do you also like Corbyn for his views on Hezbollah, Hamas and the IRA? Or is it just those dang crazy economics you love? Or do you like him because he's not an elite? I mean, if we was an elite he would have gone to private school and been raised in, I don't know, somewhere like Yew Tree Manor, wouldn't he? Edited July 13, 2016 by Radan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) The Elite, it's a revolution coming against the Elite. They come in all shapes and sizes and every political colour. They're clever, manipulative and Machiavellian. They want power, and being the puppet masters of the Politicians is just a start. It's a hard battle to fight because they already have most of the power, all we have are the numbers. But they are few and we are many... Corbyn an elite? Shows how little you understand the situation. You're thinking old school mate. You need to get with the programme... Edited July 13, 2016 by Anna B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The Elite, it's a revolution coming against the Elite. They come in all shapes and sizes and every political colour. They're clever, manipulative and Machiavellian. They want power, and being the puppet masters of the Politicians is just a start. It's a hard battle to fight because they already have most of the power, all we have the numbers. But they are few and we are many... You're thinking old school. You need to get with the programme... Have you been on the sherbet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater Sundae Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) You can be sure it will be changed so there's no confusion next time. Anyway, those rule changes about whom can vote in the leadership election will be the next bone of contention. Always fun with Labour these days. Already some heated discussions on radio 5 live this morning about the 6 month moratorium on new members before they can vote. ---------- Post added 13-07-2016 at 07:24 ---------- Now looking like at least a 3 way fight as Owen Smith enters the election. Carole Walker (bbc reporter) already talking about Smith and Eagle splitting the anti-Corbyn vote and so letting him in. She doesn't seem to understand the labour party's voting system in which the loser's second votes are redistributed. Not very impressive for a political correspondent. Edited July 13, 2016 by Eater Sundae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Nor did they envisage a situation where the majority of the rank and file members would disagree so vehemently with current Labour MPs. I am a rank and file member, and the epitome of a middle of the road average person and that goes for my vote too. I have voted for both Labour and Conservative in my time, but am a Lib Dem by nature and have voted for them most often. I am reasonably intelligent, (teacher by profession,) and reasonably informed about politics by as many methods as I can, to try and get a full picture of what's going on. I am not a 'Moron' thankyouverymuch, I am not stupid, had never heard of 'Momentum' until a couple of weeks ago, I am not a rabid 'leftie' nor a 'party activist'. Like I said, I am a very ordinary floating voter. I like Jeremy Corbyn because his views on the world and Britain in particular, generally accord with my own, and being a very average person, I think they will accord with a very large number of the general population - which is why his real opponents are so anxious that the general population get to hear very little of them. Nearly everything I know about Jeremy Corbyn I have learned from the internet and going to see him in situ. Very notably not via anything controlled by the media moguls who interestingly not only have absolutely nothing good to say about a decent, honest politician, but has gone out of its way to corrupt his message, lie about his affilliations, and besmirch him at every possible opportunity in the mainstream media. Remember "He that controls the media, controls the minds of the masses" When I saw how much the media message diverged from what I knew to be true is when I joined the Labour Party to have my vote of confidence in Corbyn, And I shall unjoin just as quickly if Jeremy gets voted out. And so I suspect will many, many others. Labour will probably be out of office for years anyway. Does anybody seriously think Angela Eagle is the best Labour has to offer as leader? Ask yourself, what's going on there? Now to me, this is no longer just about Jeremy Corbyn, but something much deeper and more sinister. It's about who controls/choses the government of this country. Is it the electorate or the media? This is the revolution people, in a typical British way, not with blood on the streets, but a battle for hearts and minds of the people. The media got a kicking in the referendum, when the electorate didn't vote the way it was supposed to vote, and the elite didn't like it. Is it just a coincidence that Labour chose to mount a leadership battle straight after, at the most inopportune time, when all eyes should have been on Brexit and the Conservative party? Or is it about the elite trying to reassert control. Should the government of the day be doing the bidding of the people who elected it and for their well being, or should it be run by the elite, for the elite? For me, and many others that's really what this Labour election battle is all about. Having watched Newsnight last night it did occur to me that your problems are even greater than I imagined. It was pretty clear that Angela Eagle's constituency party has been fully infiltrated by Momentum and she is on the verge of deselection. Wouldn't it be hilarious if the Labour Party elected a new leader who was deselected by her own party. :hihi: It is pretty clear either way that she won't be on the ballot in 2020 as a Labour MP if Corbyn retains leadership, which will be a wakeup call for all the others who haven't fully supported the current leadership. I wonder where they will all go. The Labour Leadership and Momentum are giving an object of taking a successful political party and in less than a decade taking them through unelectability, on through self destruction and rapidly heading for total irrelevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The Elite, it's a revolution coming against the Elite. They come in all shapes and sizes and every political colour. They're clever, manipulative and Machiavellian. They want power, and being the puppet masters of the Politicians is just a start. It's a hard battle to fight because they already have most of the power, all we have are the numbers. But they are few and we are many... Corbyn an elite? Shows how little you understand the situation. You're thinking old school mate. You need to get with the programme... So you want to replace the brightest and best of the life-long professional political class with the low to middling of the life-long professional political class? That doesn't sound like a revolution to me. More like a desperate attempt to transition from meritocracy to idiocracy. Something must be done. This is something. Therefore we must do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 The Elite, it's a revolution coming against the Elite. They come in all shapes and sizes and every political colour. They're clever, manipulative and Machiavellian. They want power, and being the puppet masters of the Politicians is just a start. It's a hard battle to fight because they already have most of the power, all we have are the numbers. But they are few and we are many... Corbyn an elite? Shows how little you understand the situation. You're thinking old school mate. You need to get with the programme... Oh no. They are coming for us. I don't want to wake you from your delusional state but Labour's Militant Tendancy tried all this before. Particularly in Angela Eagle's own constituency, and whilst the policies went down a storm amonst the banner wavers, protest marches, and political placard defacers, they were actually a bit of a turn off for the voting public who would rather go to the football than hurl a brick through someone's window. But it seems that you are heading back to 1979 and a vision of unionised Utopia. If history repeats itself it should take the best part of 2 decades to get rid of those who have infiltrated your party (probably including you) and actually return to being electable. Or is the plan this time an armed revolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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