The consequence thread (Brexit)

[the_bloke]

From the Telegraph tonight, Boris writes:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe--and-alw/

 

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be. There will still be intense and intensifying European cooperation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment. EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

 

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing – all the things we need to do together to make our world safer.

 

The only change – and it will not come in any great rush – is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU’s extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal. This will bring not threats, but golden opportunities for this country – to pass laws and set taxes according to the needs of the UK.

 

Yes, the Government will be able to take back democratic control of immigration policy, with a balanced and humane points-based system to suit the needs of business and industry. Yes, there will be a substantial sum of money which we will no longer send to Brussels, but which could be used on priorities such as the NHS. Yes, we will be able to do free trade deals with the growth economies of the world in a way that is currently forbidden.

 

There is every cause for optimism; a Britain rebooted, reset, renewed and able to engage with the whole world. This was a seismic campaign whose lessons must be learnt by politicians at home and abroad. We heard the voices of millions of the forgotten people, who have seen no real increase in their incomes, while FTSE-100 chiefs now earn 150 times the average pay of their employees. We must pursue actively the one-nation policies that are among David Cameron’s fine legacy, such as his campaigns on the Living Wage and Life Chances. There is no doubt that many were speaking up for themselves.

[I1L2T3]

I find it hard to believe that not a singe consultancy, legal commission team or task force whatsoever wasn't asked to produce at least a 10 page white paper on this.

 

For the Scottish referendum every leading law and economics academic was asked to draft a multitude of papers before the referendum was even considered.

 

All it seems to me is a last ditch Tory or Banker or City plan to stop Article 50 being triggered. They knew they had a chance to lose there will be plans for it.

 

What would have been the point? As Gove said the country is fed up with listening to experts. This was a straight battle for him along journalistic lines where such flippant comments are acceptable and soon forgotten, only he wasnt trying to sell newspapers this time but rather he was mucking about with the future of the country.

 

Anyway, there were no end of economic projections, analysis and warnings supplied on the remain side. They were endless. They all predict the same thing. All of them were ignored by leave as scaremongering. IMO they'll turn out to be correct. All the confidence and chutzpah of the leave campaign has drained away because they know the warnings are correct.

[Anna B]

Then they wonder why people don't trust politicians....

[I1L2T3]

From the Telegraph tonight, Boris writes:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe--and-alw/

 

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be. There will still be intense and intensifying European cooperation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment. EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

 

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing – all the things we need to do together to make our world safer.

 

The only change – and it will not come in any great rush – is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU’s extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal. This will bring not threats, but golden opportunities for this country – to pass laws and set taxes according to the needs of the UK.

 

Yes, the Government will be able to take back democratic control of immigration policy, with a balanced and humane points-based system to suit the needs of business and industry. Yes, there will be a substantial sum of money which we will no longer send to Brussels, but which could be used on priorities such as the NHS. Yes, we will be able to do free trade deals with the growth economies of the world in a way that is currently forbidden.

 

There is every cause for optimism; a Britain rebooted, reset, renewed and able to engage with the whole world. This was a seismic campaign whose lessons must be learnt by politicians at home and abroad. We heard the voices of millions of the forgotten people, who have seen no real increase in their incomes, while FTSE-100 chiefs now earn 150 times the average pay of their employees. We must pursue actively the one-nation policies that are among David Cameron’s fine legacy, such as his campaigns on the Living Wage and Life Chances. There is no doubt that many were speaking up for themselves.

 

He is still promising things that aren't compatible, and possibly cannot be delivered

[XXTickerXX]

Th EU is a failed project. I did a lot of looking and searching before I cast my vote. It always came out for Leave. I love world politics so follow it quite a bit. I am no expert by any means but I enjoy it.

 

From 2007 if Britain looks at Europe I see it has lost it's GDP to the point of never getting it back.

 

We look over the pond and see the US has increased their wealth by 10%. (maybe some quantitative easing in there pushing the debt forward I have no idea how much)

 

The euro deficit in France and Italy and Spain is monumental. 1200 Billion Euro's in the red with high unemployment some more than double in the UK. Bailouts will continue.

 

The biggest think tank in Europe of economy and politics and the European data bank say the MAXIMUM loss for the UK in event of Brexit is 1% of GDP.

 

We import a lot more (something like 10 times) than what we export and therefore have a better bargaining position. The EU would lose Billions upon Billions by playing nasty. They will be reasonable but try to discourage others to leave. Others will leave anyway.

 

The single market is great but outside we still have access to 2-3 billion more people to sell to instead of 500 million.

 

In 1992 we were members of the European monetary union. When we left everyone said it was the death of the UK. Instead we saw London become the financial capital of the world.

 

In 1993 the German constitutional court made a statement that states "The European parliament is a NON democratic tool".

 

Open borders is seeing a massive shift all across Europe to the right wing. This can't continue. It is unsustainable.

 

I don't for a minute believe the government was scared of a monetary loss.

 

They were terrified of a power loss and they got it.

 

My prediction is the EU will collapse within 10 years. It will not reform. Italy cannot continue taking in hundreds of thousands of refugees due to Angela Merkel and survive with the massive rates of unemployment (up to 65% in some areas). They will wait and see what happens here then be the next to go followed by Spain probably. Just an armchair prediction.

 

I love Europe and have lived abroad for 4 years and traveled all over. I hate the EU and what it does. It has destroyed Greece. It is not good for democracy. The future is bright, we have waited long enough for freedom.

 

I get the remainers stance. The future is uncertain and its very early days. I also think that there are many many intelligent people who voted to leave too. A lot on both sides also followed the narrative of respective camps.

[Lex Luthor]

I will post as and when I feel like, where I feel like, thank you kindly sir.

As for contributing, my personal stance is as above,

Not a single person knows where we'll be at the end of this road, not 1.

We may regret this decision, it could turn out to be the best thing that has happened to this country.

Who knows?

You?

Nope

Me?

Nope.

Yet you and others seem hell bent on damning a democratically made decision, whether it was made by the uneducated, poor and derived or not.

What exactly can you do about it, personally?

Nothing.

Move on, we're coming out. Deal with it.

 

And that about sums it up.

[TORONTONY]

And that about sums it up.

 

And there endeth the lesson. Change is good, especially in this instance. I don't live there anymore and my UK partial pension is taking a hit, but I totally would have voted leave, had I been eligible.

[Guest]

[iRONY]

Well, there's no evidence at all of number (1) happening, is there?

[/iRONY]

 

(IRONY)

The EU hasn't given rise to far right fascism right across Europe has it?

(IRONY)

[Eater Sundae]

(IRONY)

The EU hasn't given rise to far right fascism right across Europe has it?

(IRONY)

 

Yes, of course there was no racism before the EU.

 

There is a nasty, hateful, xenophobic element in all countries. Ours has just been given a boost.

[Bob Arctor]

From the Telegraph tonight, Boris writes:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe--and-alw/

 

I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be. There will still be intense and intensifying European cooperation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment. EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.

 

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing – all the things we need to do together to make our world safer.

 

The only change – and it will not come in any great rush – is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU’s extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal. This will bring not threats, but golden opportunities for this country – to pass laws and set taxes according to the needs of the UK.

 

Yes, the Government will be able to take back democratic control of immigration policy, with a balanced and humane points-based system to suit the needs of business and industry. Yes, there will be a substantial sum of money which we will no longer send to Brussels, but which could be used on priorities such as the NHS. Yes, we will be able to do free trade deals with the growth economies of the world in a way that is currently forbidden.

 

There is every cause for optimism; a Britain rebooted, reset, renewed and able to engage with the whole world. This was a seismic campaign whose lessons must be learnt by politicians at home and abroad. We heard the voices of millions of the forgotten people, who have seen no real increase in their incomes, while FTSE-100 chiefs now earn 150 times the average pay of their employees. We must pursue actively the one-nation policies that are among David Cameron’s fine legacy, such as his campaigns on the Living Wage and Life Chances. There is no doubt that many were speaking up for themselves.

 

What's he saying, that he would cap executive pay? That excessive executive pay is the fault of the EU? Johnson would stiff the working class at any opportunity, they are like a different species to him.