The consequence thread (Brexit)

[tzijlstra]

Interesting that Osbourne made a speach this morning saying Britain was in a strong position and non of the emergency budgets or other dire implications of Brexit were going to happen.

What a difference a referendum makes to your job application.

 

That isn't quite what he said, he made it clear it was up yo the new PM to decide.

[nightrider]

Continuing with the free movement of people is not going to be acceptable to the British public. What might be acceptable is some sort of free movement of labour where non-UK citizens are denied access to the public purse (benefits) and the NHS (health insurance required).

 

Can't see how the health one is possible - what about all the pensioners and workers we have in the EU currently allowed access to health services? At least for the pensioners they paid their NI and will expect health provision.

 

The benefits one seems easier, because I doubt there are many UK citizens in the EU claiming benefits from said countries?

[foxy lady]

Can't see how the health one is possible - what about all the pensioners and workers we have in the EU currently allowed access to health services? At least for the pensioners they paid their NI and will expect health provision.

 

The benefits one seems easier, because I doubt there are many UK citizens in the EU claiming benefits from said countries?

 

Well that's an easy one. We have reciprocal health care deals with EU countries which has nothing to do with our EU membership. So Spaniards will continue to get free treatment in UK hospitals and Brits will continue to get free treatment in Spanish hospitals.

 

UK pensioners living in Spain get their pension paid by the UK government. Spaniards living here get their's from Spain.

 

You will even be able to drive on the roads of Europe using a UK driving license.

Edited June 27, 2016 by foxy lady

[L00b]

Well that's an easy one. We have reciprocal health care deals with EU countries which has nothing to do with our EU membership. So Spaniards will continue to get free treatment in UK hospitals and Brits will continue to get free treatment in Spanish hospitals.

 

UK pensioners living in Spain get their pension paid by the UK government. Spaniards living here get their's from Spain.

 

You will even be able to drive on the roads of Europe using a UK driving license.

It looks fully EHIC-driven to me, so currently all to do with the EU indeed.

 

Maybe there is an earlier bilateral agreement that can be dusted off...but then, as regards continuing to get free treatment:

Katrina Osman of IHC Employee Benefits said: “Many people don’t realise that once they move abroad then they can’t simply return for a holiday or to visit family and use the NHS for non-emergency treatment. If you live abroad for more than three months you don’t automatically qualify for NHS treatment, even if you still have a UK passport.”

 

She said those returning from Spain needed to be resident in Britain for at least six months before they could access NHS services. They would then need to register with a GP and be put on the waiting list for treatment, which could result in a further six to 12-month wait.

 

Although the rules have been in place for a number of years, Ms Osman said “it is only in the last two years we’ve seen them being more widely implemented”.

source

 

Ooops. And LOLZ of course.

[foxy lady]

It looks fully EHIC-driven to me, so currently all to do with the EU indeed.

 

Maybe there is an earlier bilateral agreement that can be dusted off...but then, as regards continuing to get free treatment:

source

 

Ooops. And LOLZ of course.

 

But isn't that just Brits living abroad getting treatment on the NHS if they return to visit the UK? The agreement that is in place covers Brits getting treatment whilst they are abroad in exchance for nationals of those foreign countries getting treatment here when they are visiting our shores.

[Rationalist]

But isn't that just Brits living abroad getting treatment on the NHS if they return to visit the UK? The agreement that is in place covers Brits getting treatment whilst they are abroad in exchance for nationals of those foreign countries getting treatment here when they are visiting our shores.

 

So the key point is perhaps whether this agreement is part of the EU or not? If it is then it needs to be negotiated when we withdraw.

 

EHIC apparently works in Switzerland, so presumably it will be possible to arrange something if needed.

[foxy lady]

So the key point is perhaps whether this agreement is part of the EU or not? If it is then it needs to be negotiated when we withdraw.

 

EHIC apparently works in Switzerland, so presumably it will be possible to arrange something if needed.

 

It makes no sense to any party to withdraw agreements that have nothing to do with EU membership and are just sensible arrangements agreed between nations to provide protection for their citizens.

[L00b]

But isn't that just Brits living abroad getting treatment on the NHS if they return to visit the UK?

The article I linked clearly states to the contrary:

Until now these expats have been able to get medical treatment in Spain, under a reciprocal agreement, where costs were refunded by the UK Treasury, provided that patients signed a “residual S1” form (previously known as an E106).

 

This form confirmed that expats had paid National Insurance for the past three years in the UK, and the British Government would therefore cover necessary medical costs overseas.

 

But these forms are being withdrawn on July 1. Protection will remain in place for those who have signed the forms before this date, but only until their form expires – and they last a maximum of 30 months.

 

Those who have already reached retirement age will still be covered by a similar reciprocal agreement (provided that they have signed the correct paperwork). But with further cost-cutting on the horizon there are concerns that this too could soon be under threat. Expats who can no longer get free health care in Spain, however, cannot simply pop back to Britain and get treatment on the NHS.

(same source)

The agreement that is in place covers Brits getting treatment whilst they are abroad in exchance for nationals of those foreign countries getting treatment here when they are visiting our shores.

Under the EU (and possibly EEA according to Rationalist) agreements.

 

Bilateral agreements exist with non-EU countries, comprising essentially of the Commonwealth.

It makes no sense to any party to withdraw agreements that have nothing to do with EU membership and are just sensible arrangements agreed between nations to provide protection for their citizens.

At this time I'll remind you about my earlier posts in the 'Referendum' thread concerning Spain's €1.4bn shortfall owed to it by the UK/NHS.

 

I guess I don't need to explain to a business woman how business negotiations (for that is what Brexit negotiations between the UK and the 27 are) work. It's a blanket-pulling exercise, some is always given by each side to the other, and rarely in equal amounts by the end.

Edited June 27, 2016 by L00b

[foxy lady]

The article I linked clearly states to the contrary:

(same source)

Under the EU (and possibly EEA according to Rationalist) agreements.

 

Bilateral agreements exist with non-EU countries, comprising essentially of the Commonwealth.

 

By Emma Simon

 

8:04AM BST 17 May 2014

 

The article you linked to dates from 2014, so is hadly to do with the EU and our decision to leave it.

[L00b]

By Emma Simon

 

8:04AM BST 17 May 2014

 

The article you linked to dates from 2014, so is hadly to do with the EU and our decision to leave it.

It's to do with UK people obtaining healthcare in Spain (your point), which according to the NHS' own and current website (which I linked) is still done under their EHIC, which is 100% EU.

 

Feel free to check more recent articles to see whether the situation has actually changed since 01 July 2014

 

Remember that the EHIC applies to both residents (what the article is about) and tourists, the EHIC of each of whom will be rendered about as useful as a chocolate fireguard once the UK leaves the EU. Straightforward, logical and entirely predictable consequence of leaving the EU.

 

Of course, the UK may negotiate new reciprocal healthcare deals with EU member states as part of its exit negotiations. I have a feeling it's going to be on a money upfront basis for Spain, though

Edited June 27, 2016 by L00b