Obelix Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 The tweet makes a lot of sense insofar as domestic politics (and stark economic reality) are concerned, but Cameron's move to check-mate Johnson is just party politics in action. That it effectively doubles as a sweet revenge on the Eurosceptics and its Leave figureheads is just bonus points. Love him, loathe him or don't care one bit in-between, Cameron is nothing if not a supremely-skilled politician, and I have zero doubt his deferral on the Art.50 to the 'next PM' was deliberate political play: Friday morning, he called the Leavers' bluff. Jeremy Hunt has said this morning two things - that EU withdrawal needs "democratic endorsement" and that hes seriously considering a leadership bid. So he gets it on a "remain" ticket and then we call a general election - assuming we can get a vote of no confidence or a recall.... Or perish the thought we wait till 2020! ---------- Post added 28-06-2016 at 09:43 ---------- how true lol ---------- Post added 28-06-2016 at 01:35 ---------- Suggest you read, http://europa.eu/about-eu/institutions-bodies/european-parliament/index_en.htm. But to quote from it: The European Commission is the EU's politically independent executive arm. It is alone responsible for drawing up proposals for new European legislation. Junker is the head of this, they are NOT elected. Our elected representatives only get to vote on their proposals. They do not get to have any say in proposing any ideas. Do you think that our MP's come up with proposals? That's what our unelected Civil Service is for.... Proposals from the Commission are gone over by the Council and voted on by MEP's. Last I heard MEP's were elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz1 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 He won't be winning anything other than a footnote in history as the British PM who gambled the stability and future of the UK on a domestic party-politics issue and, against all expectations, lost. As with anything and everything in life, no other certainty in life than death and taxes, and your mileage may vary. He will forever be remembered -rightly so- as the root cause of the problem, having campaigned for (at GE time) and then given, the referendum. Which, if you scratch the surface a bit, was always a political tool to silence the Eurosceptic contingent of the Tory party. The tweet makes a lot of sense insofar as domestic politics (and stark economic reality) are concerned, but Cameron's move to check-mate Johnson is just party politics in action. That it effectively doubles as a sweet revenge on the Eurosceptics and its Leave figureheads is just bonus points. Love him, loathe him or don't care one bit in-between, Cameron is nothing if not a supremely-skilled politician, and I have zero doubt his deferral on the Art.50 to the 'next PM' was deliberate political play: Friday morning, he called the Leavers' bluff. In that context, the noises from the EU since about "no negotiations without article 50 letter in" is just the EU confirming to the UK that they'll take the UK exit seriously when the UK itself decides to take it seriously. I accept he has harmed his legacy etc but how he wins is by not taking Britain OUT of the EU- he has forfeited that right to activate Article 50. He wants nothing to do with it- leave it to the next government- who I think will also not do it as it is suicidal to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I accept he has harmed his legacy etc but how he wins is by not taking Britain OUT of the EU- he has forfeited that right to activate Article 50. He wants nothing to do with it- leave it to the next government- who I think will also not do it as it is suicidal to say the least. The problem is that both options will be highly politically damaging. You alienate vast numbers of voters either way. As I say, for me and I suspect millions of others this will change my vote. The Brexiters will not forgive their win in the referendum being overturned. The remainers will I suspect forgive if there is a good deal and prosperity once it all settles down. Cameron doesn't have to face this tough decision so he's not going to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 There's an ominous feeling that the whole political establishment are maneuvering to basically blow a big raspberry to the referendum result. We'll have to see how it all pans out, but if they do, and we ultimately end up remaining in the EU with free movement of people, intertwined in political union etc, that, will more than anything, poison politics in this country, and I ask you to think about this - the Labour party, unfortunately, is a busted flush right now, Scotland has gone for them, and they have been taken over by an unpalatable, unelectable far left junta, so come election time, massive amounts of Labour MP's along with green and LibDems could be replaced with Conservative and UKIP MP's, and then there could well be a parliamentary, as well as a voter majority in favour of Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Verhofstadt savages Farage in Brussels.......absolutely brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Boris's plan, as far as he has one, seems to be to make Brexit look as similar to Bremain as is humanly possible - in particular, via membership of the EEA, which is just like being in the EU but with even less control over it. He's lost my vote if that's the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Jeremy Hunt now talking about a second referendum being held on the terms of the UK exit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzijlstra Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 He's lost my vote if that's the plan. If you had actually listened to him throughout the campaign, he has repeatedly said that he wanted an EEA style treaty. He has changed his mind numerous times on what that means though. Having watched quite a bit back whilst making the video below I came to the conclusion that Boris wants this: Leave the EU as is, to avoid further integration with the EU, but accept the EEA treaty with, very likely, freedom of labour, continued payments of sorts and an acceptance of trade law. Not what people voted for, and a very garbled message throughout. As I asked in the other thread, did you not see this coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Luthor Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) Jeremy Hunt has said this morning two things - that EU withdrawal needs "democratic endorsement" and that hes seriously considering a leadership bid. So he gets it on a "remain" ticket and then we call a general election - assuming we can get a vote of no confidence or a recall.... Did you see the same interview as me? I heard him talk about negotiating Brexit, although he voted against, the people had spoken and that in our democracy "the people are sovereign". He also said that he was looking for a Norway+ agreement - whereby we had access to the single market, but there were restrictions on the movement of people, which he said is already of concern to Germany and other countries in the EU. Edited June 28, 2016 by Lex Luthor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 If you had actually listened to him throughout the campaign, he has repeatedly said that he wanted an EEA style treaty. He has changed his mind numerous times on what that means though. Having watched quite a bit back whilst making the video below I came to the conclusion that Boris wants this: Leave the EU as is, to avoid further integration with the EU, but accept the EEA treaty with, very likely, freedom of labour, continued payments of sorts and an acceptance of trade law. Not what people voted for, and a very garbled message throughout. As I asked in the other thread, did you not see this coming? He stood on a platform of withdrawing UK contributions to the EU, ending free movement and a massive return of competencies. He's not going to get that with EEA membership. Norway doesn't have it. The Swiss don't even have it and they're not EEA members. He's going to have to do better, and I see no reason why he can't. I always knew that EEA membership (or something very similar) would be fought for in the event of a remain vote. The referendum was just the first step. The fact that the main leave campaign made promises incompatible with that and the leaders of the leave campaign are likely to be at the top of the government, really ought to rule that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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