unbeliever Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 If you really do abstain as a protest I think you are saying you`re pretty sure you`d lose. But, as it happens, it won`t just be a rerun of the referendum, it`s more likely to be a referendum on the exact terms that we`re being offered. Yes I think we would lose a repeat. An awful lot of people who don't normally vote (because they don't think it makes a difference) turned out for this referendum and voted to leave. They won't do it again as repeating the referendum shows that there indeed is no point. I'd be spoiling my ballot. The default position must be out. If they want our assent to EFTA membership or something then perhaps a referendum would be appropriate; but that would be EFTA or nothing, not EFTA or back into the EU. That referendum I would participate in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Oh the "you lost" so suck it up response? Just think - you might think you have won and got your country back, but in the process you have made me lose mine. I've lost it - I've lost the Europe that I had, with the vast area I could call home. I've lost the ability to work in places as fantastic looking as Dubrovnik and Siena, as cosmopolitan as Berlin, as tranquil as Provence and as icy blue as Finland. So you think I'm going to be happy with that? You think I'm just going to "get over" losing almost all of the country I live in and be confined to a small narrow little island stuck out in the middle of the sea? This is not going to stop us. We want our country back and I'm not settling for losing any of it. Not even that small narrow island. The way I look at it is this : I`m a Sheffielder first, then a Yorkshireman, then an Englishman, then a Britain, then a European. And I`m very angry that, apparently, I`m officially to no longer be a European. What`s most interesting about all of this is one would have thought that all the strong feelings would be on the side of the Leavers. But even I have been quite surprised at how angry I am and how strongly so many other people (other remainers I talk to) feel. ---------- Post added 28-06-2016 at 14:27 ---------- Yes I think we would lose a repeat. An awful lot of people who don't normally vote (because they don't think it makes a difference) turned out for this referendum and voted to leave. They won't do it again as repeating the referendum shows that there indeed is no point. I'd be spoiling my ballot. The default position must be out. If they want our assent to EFTA membership or something then perhaps a referendum would be appropriate; but that would be EFTA or nothing, not EFTA or back into the EU. That referendum I would participate in. But you haven`t answered the question as to whether it would be undemocratic for a party voted in on a manifesto to stay in the EU to go back on that pledge ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) Can I just say, I agree with Unbeliever. The vote was had, the result is clear. The table is set and we now have to deal with it. Looking at what ifs and what nots is completely unhelpful. The genie is out of the bottle, the British have voted to leave. Now it is time to ensure that this harms as few people as possible whilst representing that wish. It will have huge, dramatic consequences, but there we are. Those that shouldn't have voted to Leave because they didn't understand what they voted for will be hit hardest when reality sets in. That is the result of having a large, disengaged and uninterested population that votes anti-establishment at every opportunity. Some Leave voters knew what they voted for, uncertainty and a notion of sovereignty, Unbeliever made it clear before the referendum that he was prepared to take the economic hit on the nose and move on. Let's respect that, it is how it is. At the same time, a lot of Remain voters need to look at themselves as well. I know I have campaigned hard to persuade people to vote Remain, I know that others have persuaded people I know, who were dead set on voting Leave to vote Remain or abstain from voting instead. But clearly not all Remain voters were able to make that case. If 48 percent of the voters had all, unified, aimed to convince the Leave vote that it was a bad idea, the result would have been different. And that case could have been made, with ease, by simply explaining what a Leave vote would actually mean. The result is clear, Westminster gambled and lost. No need in buggering about now, it is time to get together and ensure the best deal for Britain and Europe is achieved at this stage. Thank you. I hope you know I would have said the same to the leave whiners if it had gone the other way. As you say all this talk of re-runs is a destructive distraction. More is lost by indecision than wrong decision. ---------- Post added 28-06-2016 at 14:28 ---------- But you haven`t answered the question as to whether it would be undemocratic for a party voted in on a manifesto to stay in the EU to go back on that pledge ? Have I not? Okay. It would be quite wrong to override the referendum result, manifesto promises notwithstanding. Edited June 28, 2016 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/28/pro-remain-rallies-cancelled-over-safety-fears Pro EU rallies put on hold due to safety fears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Agreed. You think Penistone999 and Zamo will be happy though? I expect they'd have to see the deal. Not everybody trusts Gove like I do. Nobody trusts Boris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Have I not? Okay. It would be quite wrong to override the referendum result, manifesto promises notwithstanding. Fair enough, we`ll just have to agree to disagree then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skink Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I expect they'd have to see the deal. Not everybody trusts Gove like I do. Nobody trusts Boris. but Thersa May is the bookies favourite - just http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-prime-minister not that bookies are necessarily a good judge of such things . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 but Thersa May is the bookies favourite - just http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-prime-minister not that bookies are necessarily a good judge of such things . . . Indeed they are not. As Thursday demonstrated rather well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalga Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 but Thersa May is the bookies favourite - just http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-prime-minister not that bookies are necessarily a good judge of such things . . . Will a Theresa May government be a Pro Brexit government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Will a Theresa May government be a Pro Brexit government? No, nor would a Boris one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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