I1L2T3 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Someone in one of the papers said " If the SNP had their way , then Scotland would turn into Greece without the sun " It is far more likely that it would be like a Scandanavian country, possibly most like Norway. Politically they are very similar, being quite socially conservative but with a left-ish lean towards certain policy areas. Once various adjustments are taken into account then an Scotland's inherited share of UK national debt could be as low as 60% of its GDP which is roughly similar to the debt:GDP ratio that Norway ticks along at. Oil prices won't stay low for ever. It's quite likely that Scottish independence would coincide with a gradual return of oil and gas prices to normal levels, and with that the chance for them to build a sovereign fund for future generations. It seems pretty certain that if we Brexit, travelling across the border from England into an independent Scotland will not be like travelling into a backwater but into a strong and rich country. Scotland will look across the North sea to like-minded countries and it will find them. It may be that Scotland will technically end up like Norway and not be in the EU for political reasons, but it will be in the EEA and richer than most of the rest of the UK will ever be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbifter Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 One of the SNPs flagship policies. Strangely enough, most people i know think those who can afford to pay should pay. I feel awkward when i ever need to pick up meds for myself. ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 10:34 ---------- Haha! Probably right. Off the top of my head i think around 1 in 5 people in Scotland is employed by the UK government (give or take about 50,000-80,000 employed directly by the Scottish government). Give Scotland her independence, and this is a lot of salary/pensions to find. i dont mind paying for precriptions it just sods me off that the scottish get them for free and constantly whine about what a bad deal they get. At the end of the day they get more back out of westminster than they put in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Your wife and son's can get Irish passports but you can't as you have no Irish roots. I know this as I looked it up the other day. The kid's can't. Qualifiaction stops at grandparent level, so the wife is entitled. The kids aren't entitled through a great-grandparent. Looked into this extensively. My wife is half-Irish half-Maltese and we pretty much know the rules inside out because we've been sorting this for our kids. Sadly, I'm the only one in the house who won't be an EU citizen once the 2 year Brexit window is up. ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 10:47 ---------- i dont mind paying for precriptions it just sods me off that the scottish get them for free and constantly whine about what a bad deal they get. At the end of the day they get more back out of westminster than they put in How much more, say over the last 40 years. Got any links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) The kid's can't. Qualifiaction stops at grandparent level, so the wife is entitled. The kids aren't entitled through a great-grandparent. Looked into this extensively. My wife is half-Irish half-Maltese and we pretty much know the rules inside out because we've been sorting this for our kids. Sadly, I'm the only one in the house who won't be an EU citizen once the 2 year Brexit window is up. Oh dear, that`s that one closed then. Britain hasn`t left the EU yet, I`m still not certain it will, though I concede that could be wishful thinking. Edited July 2, 2016 by Justin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 No. They're referring to ranking by total GDP rather than per capita as it's an estimate of influence and clout. The reason that I question it, is that I recall it being reported that we started as members in the EU as the 2nt poorest member, and now we are the 5th richest country, worldwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The reason that I question it, is that I recall it being reported that we started as members in the EU as the 2nt poorest member, and now we are the 5th richest country, worldwide. When we joined the EEC in 1973 we weren't doing great. Of course the '70s was a bad time all around for the UK. At the time, we were joining a community of I think 9 western european nations, most of whom were doing better than us at the time. Try not to mix statistics. It's quite possible that China will shortly be the worlds largest economy, but still have a far lower GDP/capita and standard of living than the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petemcewan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) The EU referendum has been a campaign the import of which has set neighbour against neighbour. How on earth can politicians now work to unite the country when they have alienated so many people with their tactics and lies , I don’t begin to know. Whilst following this thread. I have only seen a couple of references to how neoliberal economics might have figured in producing the exit result. Neoliberalism is an economic system based upon the principles of perfect market competition. Coupled with the ability of the market to self-regulate -without government interference. Neoliberalism cannot abide workers organised in trade unions. Neoliberal economic practices have resulted in large numbers of working people being condemned to poverty and alienation from the political process. The ethos of neoliberal economics is to tar the working poor- and the unemployed- as being the architects of their own condition. If we look back over the past 30 years, economic policies have-in the main- operated to benefit the economics and financial elites. In these times of financialisation and neoliberal economics,the rich have become richer and more influential and powerful. These elites have a profound influence on economic policy. Since the 1980s, the focus of economic policy has been on privatisation ,deregulation and liberalisation. The results have been that profits have soared and wages have remained relatively stagnant at best.Solving income inequality is a significant problem for any government. It is my opinion, that so long as the economic model is based on neoliberal economic principles and the main political parties (establishment ) remain wedded to neoliberal economics and austerity ; then divisions in society are set to grow deeper. We will just have more of the same. Paul Mason in his book ,Post-Capitalism, A Guide To Our Future,makes the following observations, “Over the past two centuries or so, capitalism has undergone continuous change-economic cycles that lurch from boom to bust-and has always emerged transformed and strengthened. Surveying this turbulent history Mason wonders whether today we are on the brink of a change so big , so profound, that this time capitalism itself,the immensely complex system by which entire societies function has reached its limits and is changing into something wholly new “. According to Mason what is driving this change is information technology. Mason argues that infotech has the , " potential to reshape utterly our familiar notions of work, production, and value, and to destroy an economy based on markets and private ownership” . In fact, he contends that it is already doing so. “Almost unnoticed ,in the niches and hollows of the market system,whole swathes of economic life are changing. Goods and services that no longer respond to the dictates of neoliberal are appearing, from parallel currencies and time banks to cooperatives and self- managed online spaces . Vast numbers of people are changing their behaviour, discovering new forms of ownership,lending and doing business that is distinct from,and contrary to, the current system of state- backed corporate capitalism.” Mason is arguing that there is a chance to create a,” more socially just and sustainable global economy. Moving beyond capitalism. This is the first time in human history in which,equipped with an understanding of what is happening around us we can predict and shape ,rather than simply react to,seismic change” (Paul Mason, Post Capitalism. A Guide To Our Future,Pub, Allen Lane, Random House Uk, ISBN, 978-1-846-14739-8 2015). If there is a way out of this Brexit mess to a more socially just society ;then it will not be with the aid of neoliberal economics. If anything is over, it’s neoliberalism (it’s too divisive). “Neoliberalism is so yesterday” (Student comment to me in the Hallamshire Pub , Walkley yesterday. Does he know something we don’t ?). Edited July 2, 2016 by petemcewan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 i dont mind paying for precriptions it just sods me off that the scottish get them for free and constantly whine about what a bad deal they get. At the end of the day they get more back out of westminster than they put in Do the jocks really get more out of England? We get billions of barrels of North Sea oil; they get a few litres of methadone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilldig Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 i dont mind paying for precriptions it just sods me off that the scottish get them for free and constantly whine about what a bad deal they get. At the end of the day they get more back out of westminster than they put in This is something I also fail to understand. Surely there is only one NHS for all, and if there is not, then why not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 This is something I also fail to understand. Surely there is only one NHS for all, and if there is not, then why not ? One word. Devolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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