Guest Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 How can we trust a government potentially led by someone who "has had enough of experts" and who lies and stabs their colleagues in the back? By a government who are already going back on the bribes (sorry, promises) that they used to potentially get power? Any surprise that loads of leavers are wanting to back remain now? I don't agree with your assessment of Gove and the Brexit campaign in general, but that aside, what I would say to you is you're getting too hung up on the short term. This whole issue is about the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Oh dear. Really. You're abandoning democracy quite casually here. You sure you want to live in a world where the same devious, sneaky goodfornothings are in charge decade after decade, rather than being able to kick them out every 5 years and replace them with a new set of devious sneaky goodfornothings. It's obviously not a perfect solution, but it beats every conceivable alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Put a brave face on it and use those smilies. You've got little to smile about really! Oh don't worry about me mate, I'm a highly educated typical lefty Remainer and I'm doing ok. Better than those bottom of the ladder Brexiters anyways. Whoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I don't agree with your assessment of Gove and the Brexit campaign in general, but that aside, what I would say to you is you're getting too hung up on the short term. This whole issue is about the long term. My assessment of Gove is based on his public statements, so I don't understand how you can disagree with it. ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 19:35 ---------- Oh dear. Really. You're abandoning democracy quite casually here. You sure you want to live in a world where the same devious, sneaky goodfornothings are in charge decade after decade, rather than being able to kick them out every 5 years and replace them with a new set of devious sneaky goodfornothings. It's obviously not a perfect solution, but it beats every conceivable alternative. All very well, but for something like this - how long before we ask the country again? 40 years? 20 years? 5 years? 1 year? 1 month? The popular opinion (popular meaning majority) is that we should ask the country again soomer rather than (too) later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Oh dear. Really. You're abandoning democracy quite casually here. You sure you want to live in a world where the same devious, sneaky goodfornothings are in charge decade after decade, rather than being able to kick them out every 5 years and replace them with a new set of devious sneaky goodfornothings. It's obviously not a perfect solution, but it beats every conceivable alternative. We'll soon find out one way or another. I'm very pessimistic though, something I rarely am when it comes to who runs the country. I think most of us get on with it regardless and unless you are sick or in education your life doesn't get that much upheaval and it doesn't matter hugely who is in charge, it's more likely external events. This time it's self inflicted, it's devisive, angry and it's been kicked off by the worst campaign (on both sides) that I can remember. It's huge shift in this country, where we won't gain much but will lose a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 We'll soon find out one way or another. I'm very pessimistic though, something I rarely am when it comes to who runs the country. I think most of us get on with it regardless and unless you are sick or in education your life doesn't get that much upheaval and it doesn't matter hugely who is in charge, it's more likely external events. This time it's self inflicted, it's devisive, angry and it's been kicked off by the worst campaign (on both sides) that I can remember. It's huge shift in this country, where we won't gain much but will lose a lot. What we will gain is being a proper, normal country again that governs itself. That's the overriding principle here that trumps everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 What we will gain is being a proper, normal country again that governs itself. That's the overriding principle here that trumps everything else. Not a country that still has a huge trade deficit with the EU but now has to abide by all their rules with no say whatsoever on what those rules are? Well trumped(!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litotes Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Not a country that still has a huge trade deficit with the EU but now has to abide by all their rules with no say whatsoever on what those rules are? Well trumped(!) I think that the alignment of the leavers with Trump just about sums it up... Thank goodness it doesn't look like being blonde and blonder (for the short term at least) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radan Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I think that the alignment of the leavers with Trump just about sums it up... Thank goodness it doesn't look like being blonde and blonder (for the short term at least) What about Mini-Blonde?? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36693835 Trump stands a chance - old Hills is being questioned by the FBI right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Oh dear. Really. You're abandoning democracy quite casually here. You sure you want to live in a world where the same devious, sneaky goodfornothings are in charge decade after decade, rather than being able to kick them out every 5 years and replace them with a new set of devious sneaky goodfornothings. It's obviously not a perfect solution, but it beats every conceivable alternative. It's still going to be the same elite, just a different faction of it. Like I said many times the Tories are the political wing of British business and this has been a battle between two factions in it. The issue is that this is a total and final victory for one faction. We can't flip-flop in and out of the EU/EFTA/EEA every 5 years. Trade deals take longer than 5 years usually. Economic change at the national strategic level has the turning circle of an oil tanker so your argument about change every 5 years is not practicable and a recipe for continuous uncertainty. For the last 43 years there has been a level of certainty provided by continuous EU membership. That certainty is being removed. You are going to feel the full force of this when article 50 is invoked and we are on a 2 year countdown to WTO trade rules. In all your fervour over a vague notion of sovereignty you have not really considered the economic impact. I reckon you are not going to like it much. ---------- Post added 02-07-2016 at 20:23 ---------- What we will gain is being a proper, normal country again that governs itself. That's the overriding principle here that trumps everything else. It'll mean nothing when people start losing their jobs en masse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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